i totally agree with you, but the ES is a nice car, if thats what your looking for. Some people might love the ES for various reasons, and others might not. Some might love the Tl, and some might not. From my point of view, if a car sells, and it sells decently, then good for it. Every car has its speciality.

 

I think the 3.0L 200hp V6 thing isn't misinformation. It's trying to tell us that's the gas engine that the 04RL will have powering the front wheels, with a 160hp IMA electric motor powering the rear wheels. (Although one wonders if this is how Honda is gonna go, why they don't just put the 03 Accord's engine in, save the minor engine retooling costs, and have that 400hp RL IMA.)

I for one think, so long as Honda is refusing to produce a V8, is an awesome compromise. It'll outpower both in horsepower and torque all the competition, get insane fuel mileage, and have the security of all wheel drive.

Maybe we were wrong before when we all speculated that the DualNote was a NSX prototype. It looks like Honda was aiming for the new Legend/RL with the DualNote. (come on... it was kind of weird thinking about a NSX as a four door sport sedan, like the DualNote)

As for the TL, I dunno. This might be a good time for Honda to consider moving the entire Acura line to an all AWD setup. Set up the AWD system in the next TL or just shove the Accord engine up front with a 60hp IMA powering the rears. 300hp for an ES300 fighter? And the IMA would compensate for all the "torqueless wonder"ness that people still associate with Hondas.

 

So you think the ES is too soft, even with the presence of the IS? I'd tend to agree with that, but only if we didn't have the IS.... Does anyone else think the ES is one of the worst looking cars on the road? Man, I think its nasty.

 

yeah, I about puked the first time I saw that thing.......it's huge, and it looks like it's going to eat you........

Toyota's ugly new styling taken to the xtreme.....my mom's not a car person, and she even commented on it, as our neighbors bought an ES.....she pointed at it as we drove by and said..."their new car is ugly, what is that thing?"

 

That's one thing Honda tends to avoid, and I think it's a good thing. They don't try to go too far off the beaten path, and while it won't win over tough design critics, most people aren't offended. They aren't inspired, either, but the low key, conservative approach holds up well over time. How many Honda's look dated? A 1990 Accord coupe looks as good today as when it was new. How about a 1990 Pontiac Grand Prix? Period styling gets the car locked into an era. Tail fins of the 1950's. EVERYBODY knows when those cars were built. But crisp, conservative looks stay fresh for years.

 

Very, very good point. I like to use the Celica - G3 Integra example. The G3 Integra was around for 8 model years, which is absolutely nuts, yet I'd say it looks better than the new Celica. The Celica is a "now" design, which I hate. Honda designs for 10 years in the future, I believe. I liked the Celica's design when it first came out, ALOT. But now it looks bloated and too edgy when I see it next to an RSX or a G3 Integra. While Honda may get blasted for being "conservative" and "bland", tell me this: Which looks better, a 2003 Chevy Monte Carlo or a 2003 Honda Accord Coupe? The latter is "bland and conservative", but it's obvious to every non-redneck who doesn't own a 'Calvin pissing on Ford' sticker that the Accord not only looks far better now, it will in 20 years. Good stuff.

Ben, while the ES is selling like hotcakes (projected 70k this year, that is CRAZY), I think it's way too soft. It is completely isolated from the road. In a sense, it's like a refined Buick. Very refined. But people seem to love it, so maybe it's just me and the enthusiasts that feel this way. And yeah, it's really really ugly. My dad strangely likes the design(and he owns an S2K), but he's the only one I know.

babs, the thing was that the article said it like the RL had a 3.0L V6 now. That's what confused me. I was thinking that the RL would go Hybrid, until I read that article about the Acura 400HP Hybrid. That confused me a ton. I just don't understand how they can get 160HP out of an electric motor...I mean, the freaking Hybrid only has like 30HP out of its batteries I hope Honda puts Acura on the road to AWD and Hybrids across the board...but the problem is, people have TONS of misconceptions about Hybrids, from their reliability to their use. And anyone that drives the TL/CL Type-S and says it has no torque MUST own one of those Calvin stickers.

 

i think the change for the ES is good, because its been selling a lot more compared to previous years. So even though it may be slighlty *differen* people must be liking it enough.

 

i think moving the RL to IMA is an awesome idea, and im not usually an advocate of hybrid technology. i hated the idea of the DN-X, and i ever hate the insight, just because both of those cars make too many compromises and neither one could realistically compete against any other cars out there. but an IMA RL is a great idea because its a convenient way to get awd, plus its a heavy car to begin with, so adding 500 pounds of batteries and such wont be a big deal. whereas on the DN-X and insight, weight is absolutely crucial. however, if honda chooses not to go IMA on the RL, i think they should stick with the current platform. acuras command a niche market right now, and changing to rwd would throw it away. think about how many people there are who live in cold areas where ice is a common problem, and theyre in the market for a luxury sedan. all the luxury/sport sedans out there are rwd and difficult and dangerous to drive in the snow. changing to rwd would sortof like turning theyre back on all theyre customers. front drive works just fine for now, and theres no good reason to change it.

 

A sensible man. Very good points :thumbup:

Samson, you're right, considering that Toyota will sell more ES's than Honda has EVER sold TL's.

 

IMA should prove its practicality in the new RL. Yes, it's been proven with sub-compact and compact econoboxes, but for real perfomance applications, I see some good things to come for IMA's if this works out.