Straight from horses mouth....interesting read
09-09-2002, 07:59 PM
#21
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Originally posted by More&Faster
dood with a chip and nothing else, a tdi makes over 200 torque. get an intake and exhaust on that beast and hellz yea your in gsr territory....or atleast si territory. and with all that the mileage only goes up. ive talked to people who got over 60 mpg freeway, and my moms stockq tdi consistently gets over 45 in the city. and well maybe your right, stockq for stockq the civic might be faster but the vw is by far a nicer car.
dood with a chip and nothing else, a tdi makes over 200 torque. get an intake and exhaust on that beast and hellz yea your in gsr territory....or atleast si territory. and with all that the mileage only goes up. ive talked to people who got over 60 mpg freeway, and my moms stockq tdi consistently gets over 45 in the city. and well maybe your right, stockq for stockq the civic might be faster but the vw is by far a nicer car.
09-10-2002, 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by More&Faster
dood with a chip and nothing else, a tdi makes over 200 torque. get an intake and exhaust on that beast and hellz yea your in gsr territory....or atleast si territory. and with all that the mileage only goes up. ive talked to people who got over 60 mpg freeway, and my moms stockq tdi consistently gets over 45 in the city. and well maybe your right, stockq for stockq the civic might be faster but the vw is by far a nicer car.
dood with a chip and nothing else, a tdi makes over 200 torque. get an intake and exhaust on that beast and hellz yea your in gsr territory....or atleast si territory. and with all that the mileage only goes up. ive talked to people who got over 60 mpg freeway, and my moms stockq tdi consistently gets over 45 in the city. and well maybe your right, stockq for stockq the civic might be faster but the vw is by far a nicer car.
another thing to diesels is their pollution problems...it's like a trade off...45-50mpg versus spewing carcinogens and greenhouse emissions...the beauty of the civic hybrid is you get better acceleration of a gasoline engine (not the low end torque though), the gas mileage of the diesmells, and pollute far less...even if the diesmell is running on sulphur free fuel as in europe it doesn't get as good emissions control as a gasoline engine...my 1st priority is to never follow a stinky diesmell...vw or not...but b/c a tdi is so slow i don't have problem getting away from them anyway
09-10-2002, 03:24 AM
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Let's ignore the flamebait tone of M&F for a sec, and fix some misconceptions.
1) Any Car with batteries is a step backwards. Batteries eventually need to be replaced, and waste batteries are often toxic... not to mention if you have an accident, and "get some on you".
2) TDI racecars? Well... there are several. There's a Soy powered TDI SCCA Pro-Rally car that does extremely well. Low end torque is not best on the track. Just as revving out to 6+k is less than practical on the street.
3) Diesel pollution? The biggest knee-jerk misconception. These things aren't MB diesels of the past, nor are they belching 18 wheelers. You'd be hard pressed to see any soot from my TDi. Greenhouse gasses? Go to http://www.fueleconomy.gov and look at TDI greenhouse emissions.
Particulates are a controversial matter. Do they cause cancer? Does the char on BBQ chicken cause cancer? Just because some particulates cause cancer, does not mean that all of them do. And Diesel soot is too large to be absorbed by the lungs... unlike the particulates created in gasoline engines.
And that's all with Non-renewable high sulphur Dino-Diesel that we're stuck with in this country.
Look at Bio-Diesel, and you might even start waving the flag. It's renewable. It's growable by American farmers. The refining process (as with Dino) is far less energy intensive than refining gasoline. It burns clean, and smells good.
Most people who make claims against diesel are relying on old arguments, and have clearly never driven one.
1) Any Car with batteries is a step backwards. Batteries eventually need to be replaced, and waste batteries are often toxic... not to mention if you have an accident, and "get some on you".
2) TDI racecars? Well... there are several. There's a Soy powered TDI SCCA Pro-Rally car that does extremely well. Low end torque is not best on the track. Just as revving out to 6+k is less than practical on the street.
3) Diesel pollution? The biggest knee-jerk misconception. These things aren't MB diesels of the past, nor are they belching 18 wheelers. You'd be hard pressed to see any soot from my TDi. Greenhouse gasses? Go to http://www.fueleconomy.gov and look at TDI greenhouse emissions.
Particulates are a controversial matter. Do they cause cancer? Does the char on BBQ chicken cause cancer? Just because some particulates cause cancer, does not mean that all of them do. And Diesel soot is too large to be absorbed by the lungs... unlike the particulates created in gasoline engines.
And that's all with Non-renewable high sulphur Dino-Diesel that we're stuck with in this country.
Look at Bio-Diesel, and you might even start waving the flag. It's renewable. It's growable by American farmers. The refining process (as with Dino) is far less energy intensive than refining gasoline. It burns clean, and smells good.
Most people who make claims against diesel are relying on old arguments, and have clearly never driven one.
09-10-2002, 05:08 AM
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Originally posted by Surf Green
Let's ignore the flamebait tone of M&F for a sec, and fix some misconceptions...
...Most people who make claims against diesel are relying on old arguments, and have clearly never driven one.
Let's ignore the flamebait tone of M&F for a sec, and fix some misconceptions...
...Most people who make claims against diesel are relying on old arguments, and have clearly never driven one.
If we do not innovate, we stand still and we find ourselves stuck in the past.
09-10-2002, 06:38 AM
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Why does it seem as if you are bothered by fuel cell vehicles?
Stock in diesel? No. But yeah... I do have a diesel. And I'm as enamoured with it's triats as you probably are with your high redline. That's just how enthusiasts tend to be.
How many years of Studenting did you need to make the outlandish claim that New Technology is great? Personally, I love the Fuel Cell concepts. And as an engineer, new technology is something that's part of my life every day. But Hybrids are nothing more than several old technology compromises being stuck together with some flashy circuitry.
And just because it's perceived as "New Technology", doesn't automatically mean it's the only good thing out there. With proper fuel (either ULSD or Bio-D), VW can extract 150hp and over 300 ft-lbs out of the same 1.9L engine that we get here. All that, and still returning 50 mpg. Not bad for "Old" Technology, huh?
M&F came here spouting drama, as if this was ClubSI. I did not. I just wanted to clear up some obvious misconceptions folks have with the current generation of clean diesels. Sorry if that's not what you were looking for.
09-10-2002, 07:36 AM
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I think in a very competitive automotive market, it's extremely important to distinguish yourself from others. Acura has the opportunity to do so with this new hybrid technology, AWD...
Also, I believe the next NSX will be a hybrid...Remember what NSX stands for - "New Sportscar eXperiment". Having a all aluminum, mid engine, VTEC sportscar back in 1990 put the NSX 12 years ahead of its time....Now is time for something else that will make it stand out the next 12 years...
Finally to those who don't believe in this so called "hybrid" technology, just remember Honda is a engineering company, I can almost guarantee that thier hybrid system will not fail and be even more reliable and more efficient....plus its Honda
Also, I believe the next NSX will be a hybrid...Remember what NSX stands for - "New Sportscar eXperiment". Having a all aluminum, mid engine, VTEC sportscar back in 1990 put the NSX 12 years ahead of its time....Now is time for something else that will make it stand out the next 12 years...
Finally to those who don't believe in this so called "hybrid" technology, just remember Honda is a engineering company, I can almost guarantee that thier hybrid system will not fail and be even more reliable and more efficient....plus its Honda
09-10-2002, 08:39 AM
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But how many VTEC engines does honda run in the major racing series? VTEC is hardly racing technology.
And for all of those people who knock diesels as being old tech, smelly, and polluting... how does this make you feel?
http://www.dieselforum.org/inthenews...il_062302.html
And for all of those people who knock diesels as being old tech, smelly, and polluting... how does this make you feel?
http://www.dieselforum.org/inthenews...il_062302.html
09-10-2002, 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by Surf Green
Let's ignore the flamebait tone of M&F for a sec, and fix some misconceptions.
1) Any Car with batteries is a step backwards. Batteries eventually need to be replaced, and waste batteries are often toxic... not to mention if you have an accident, and "get some on you".
2) TDI racecars? Well... there are several. There's a Soy powered TDI SCCA Pro-Rally car that does extremely well. Low end torque is not best on the track. Just as revving out to 6+k is less than practical on the street.
3) Diesel pollution? The biggest knee-jerk misconception. These things aren't MB diesels of the past, nor are they belching 18 wheelers. You'd be hard pressed to see any soot from my TDi. Greenhouse gasses? Go to http://www.fueleconomy.gov and look at TDI greenhouse emissions.
Particulates are a controversial matter. Do they cause cancer? Does the char on BBQ chicken cause cancer? Just because some particulates cause cancer, does not mean that all of them do. And Diesel soot is too large to be absorbed by the lungs... unlike the particulates created in gasoline engines.
And that's all with Non-renewable high sulphur Dino-Diesel that we're stuck with in this country.
Look at Bio-Diesel, and you might even start waving the flag. It's renewable. It's growable by American farmers. The refining process (as with Dino) is far less energy intensive than refining gasoline. It burns clean, and smells good.
Most people who make claims against diesel are relying on old arguments, and have clearly never driven one.
Let's ignore the flamebait tone of M&F for a sec, and fix some misconceptions.
1) Any Car with batteries is a step backwards. Batteries eventually need to be replaced, and waste batteries are often toxic... not to mention if you have an accident, and "get some on you".
2) TDI racecars? Well... there are several. There's a Soy powered TDI SCCA Pro-Rally car that does extremely well. Low end torque is not best on the track. Just as revving out to 6+k is less than practical on the street.
3) Diesel pollution? The biggest knee-jerk misconception. These things aren't MB diesels of the past, nor are they belching 18 wheelers. You'd be hard pressed to see any soot from my TDi. Greenhouse gasses? Go to http://www.fueleconomy.gov and look at TDI greenhouse emissions.
Particulates are a controversial matter. Do they cause cancer? Does the char on BBQ chicken cause cancer? Just because some particulates cause cancer, does not mean that all of them do. And Diesel soot is too large to be absorbed by the lungs... unlike the particulates created in gasoline engines.
And that's all with Non-renewable high sulphur Dino-Diesel that we're stuck with in this country.
Look at Bio-Diesel, and you might even start waving the flag. It's renewable. It's growable by American farmers. The refining process (as with Dino) is far less energy intensive than refining gasoline. It burns clean, and smells good.
Most people who make claims against diesel are relying on old arguments, and have clearly never driven one.
this only aguments my point...fuel economy at the expense of emissions isn't the best solution...gas engines have much better pollution control b/c the fuel is cleaner
just the civic lineup with its gasoline engines get great emissions scores as well as good gas mileage...the 2003 civic hybrid gets 7/10 in emissions (7 times better than what the tdi can do) and has an annual fuel mileage cost of $438...along with much better acceleration
the insight gets near max points as well as lowest fuel cost...best of these two attributes...btw...a 120hp/liter s2000 gets 6/10...power and environmentally friendliness is very uncommon
09-10-2002, 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by Surf Green
But how many VTEC engines does honda run in the major racing series? VTEC is hardly racing technology.
And for all of those people who knock diesels as being old tech, smelly, and polluting... how does this make you feel?
http://www.dieselforum.org/inthenews...il_062302.html
But how many VTEC engines does honda run in the major racing series? VTEC is hardly racing technology.
And for all of those people who knock diesels as being old tech, smelly, and polluting... how does this make you feel?
http://www.dieselforum.org/inthenews...il_062302.html
09-10-2002, 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by jaje
diesels are very popular in europe b/c of the price of fuel...hybrids are rare...the diesel fuel is also better refined that in the US (so it starts cleaner which is easier for the cars emissions controls to clean it)...however...noone takes into account how much diesels still pollute...most engines sold in EDM trim cannot pass the stricter emissions tests in the US...and that's at the federal level and not CARBs higher standards
diesels are very popular in europe b/c of the price of fuel...hybrids are rare...the diesel fuel is also better refined that in the US (so it starts cleaner which is easier for the cars emissions controls to clean it)...however...noone takes into account how much diesels still pollute...most engines sold in EDM trim cannot pass the stricter emissions tests in the US...and that's at the federal level and not CARBs higher standards
I'd only want a diesel if I bought a truck.