How much longer will we have the factory turbo?
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 44,908
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From: Location Location
Originally posted by 02RSXTYPES
Dakar, the main reason for everything having turbos was because NA engines were so inefficient at the time and made so little power because of all the restrictions. So why not throw a turbo on with those 15 cat converters that you've already got? SC's have many advantages, mainly being smoother operation, and alot more reliable. Of course that SC whine is bleh
On another note, notice how GM still uses SC's because THEY still cannot make power from NA engines. Why? Because they suck. I'd never buy an SC car. I can't stand that frikken belt whine.
Dakar, the main reason for everything having turbos was because NA engines were so inefficient at the time and made so little power because of all the restrictions. So why not throw a turbo on with those 15 cat converters that you've already got? SC's have many advantages, mainly being smoother operation, and alot more reliable. Of course that SC whine is bleh
On another note, notice how GM still uses SC's because THEY still cannot make power from NA engines. Why? Because they suck. I'd never buy an SC car. I can't stand that frikken belt whine.
yeah i agree s/c is much better for daily driving and better for the general public
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'00 Dakar Bus CRS Edition
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'00 Dakar Bus CRS Edition
LCD Squad #0001
Originally Posted by WiLL
...I really wanna get out and shoot people.
I need sleep...
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,632
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From: NH
My father has a SC'd Buick Park Ave Ultra...it has a roots blower just like the JR. That car may handle like a boat but it is quick for its size and weight. I never hear belt whine and the v6 feels like a v8.
HC Racer H5
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,261
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From: KCK
there are 2 main types of superchargers on the market...the roots type (jackson racing and mini cooper s) is a much more subtle unit that gives you the low end torque that most people think of when talking about a s/c
another type is the centrifugal unit like in vortech...these give gains near what a turbocharger can give and act similar...you need boost to feel power and sometimes you get the lag associated with these units
smaller turbos spool faster giving more low end power but do not help at the high end...take the porsche twin turbo...it runs a set of 2 turbos...a smaller unit for the better response and a larger unit to give the high end gains...both are tuned to create a good torque curve so it doesn't have a dropoff in the middle while the small turbo gives up and the larger unit isnt' fully spooled yet
the reason why s/c are better for emissions than a turbo system is b/c of they do not require exhaust to turn its compressor (belt driven)...turbos increase chance of exhaust leakage and cool the exhaust gases down requiring extra cat converters to be added inorder to properly clean the exhaust (the cats work best with high temps...that is the prime reason why hondas have moved most of its cats onto the header so it works faster for cold starts and better when heated up)
another type is the centrifugal unit like in vortech...these give gains near what a turbocharger can give and act similar...you need boost to feel power and sometimes you get the lag associated with these units
smaller turbos spool faster giving more low end power but do not help at the high end...take the porsche twin turbo...it runs a set of 2 turbos...a smaller unit for the better response and a larger unit to give the high end gains...both are tuned to create a good torque curve so it doesn't have a dropoff in the middle while the small turbo gives up and the larger unit isnt' fully spooled yet
the reason why s/c are better for emissions than a turbo system is b/c of they do not require exhaust to turn its compressor (belt driven)...turbos increase chance of exhaust leakage and cool the exhaust gases down requiring extra cat converters to be added inorder to properly clean the exhaust (the cats work best with high temps...that is the prime reason why hondas have moved most of its cats onto the header so it works faster for cold starts and better when heated up)
lots and lots of fail
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 23,004
Likes: 1
From: Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeetroit
Originally posted by DVPGSR
My father has a SC'd Buick Park Ave Ultra...it has a roots blower just like the JR. That car may handle like a boat but it is quick for its size and weight. I never hear belt whine and the v6 feels like a v8.
My father has a SC'd Buick Park Ave Ultra...it has a roots blower just like the JR. That car may handle like a boat but it is quick for its size and weight. I never hear belt whine and the v6 feels like a v8.
i
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,277
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Originally posted by 02RSXTYPES
Hey BB6, welcome to the forum. Glad to have you
I'm sure some of our better tech guys like jaje or viggen (or whatever the hell his name is now) can answer better, but here goes...
I'm confused about your question. The RX-8 (rotary) and Protege (I4) have no turbos. If your question is of small pocket rockets in general, I can tell you right now that the materials needed to produce them are only going to get cheaper as inflation rises. Many synthetic materials, such as high end plastics, are getting easier to produce. Cars are getting the same way as production efficiency rises. That is why the 2003 accord is basically the same price as the 2002, even with added goodies. The problem, again, is inflation. As idiots raise the minimum wage to please the poor people, EVERYTHING else goes up. People doesn't seem to understand that a boost in wages means a boost in consumer good prices.
You know how Ferraris used to be under 30 grand? It equates to about just as much as they are now. But they had no techno marvels, you say. That is true, but production used to cost a LOT more back then.
I think I kinda answerred your question...it all has to do with the economy. Are you asking whether they will be 30 grand? They will not be. Or are you asking if they will be semi-affordable? IMO, they will be.
Hey BB6, welcome to the forum. Glad to have you
I'm sure some of our better tech guys like jaje or viggen (or whatever the hell his name is now) can answer better, but here goes...
I'm confused about your question. The RX-8 (rotary) and Protege (I4) have no turbos. If your question is of small pocket rockets in general, I can tell you right now that the materials needed to produce them are only going to get cheaper as inflation rises. Many synthetic materials, such as high end plastics, are getting easier to produce. Cars are getting the same way as production efficiency rises. That is why the 2003 accord is basically the same price as the 2002, even with added goodies. The problem, again, is inflation. As idiots raise the minimum wage to please the poor people, EVERYTHING else goes up. People doesn't seem to understand that a boost in wages means a boost in consumer good prices.
You know how Ferraris used to be under 30 grand? It equates to about just as much as they are now. But they had no techno marvels, you say. That is true, but production used to cost a LOT more back then.
I think I kinda answerred your question...it all has to do with the economy. Are you asking whether they will be 30 grand? They will not be. Or are you asking if they will be semi-affordable? IMO, they will be.
Cracker Quack!
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 659
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From: LI, NY
Originally posted by 02RSXTYPES
Smaller engines seem to not have much whining, and I think the Park Avenue's SC is on a very low PSI. I'm talking cars like the Pontiac GTP...That thing has horrible belt whine up near redline. Maybe it's just because I can pick it out really easy because my brother likes hot rods and he has the ugliest, loudest old Camaro with an SC you've ever seen and you hear belt whine at 5 MPH with the thing.
Smaller engines seem to not have much whining, and I think the Park Avenue's SC is on a very low PSI. I'm talking cars like the Pontiac GTP...That thing has horrible belt whine up near redline. Maybe it's just because I can pick it out really easy because my brother likes hot rods and he has the ugliest, loudest old Camaro with an SC you've ever seen and you hear belt whine at 5 MPH with the thing.
too bad the Park Ave and the GTP have the same motor. 3800 V6 with the SC putting out 240 hp.
noel
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,664
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From: Columbus, Ohio
i only read halfway down the post so i might be repeating someone here, but the WRX is a low emissions vehicle. it can be done, and it can be done better too. ofcoarse, they did need 3 cats to achieve this....but in theory and turbocharged car can get just as good mileage as a n/a car. its all about tuning. if they get better computer sensors and controls in there, it wont have emissions problems.
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