BB6Driver

Hello, I'm new to this fourm. I'm looking forward to some interesting discussions :)

I've got an industry question:

Right now a lot of interesting cars seem to be ready to hit our shores from Japan. The WRX Sti, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, Mazda's RX8 and Protege turbo, etc.

With emissions laws getting more stringent every couple of years I wonder how much longer manufacturers can keep producing under $30k vehicles with turbos. I think they're pretty cool and I've always wanted to own one.

What I'm asking is, based on what you guys know about the car industry, emissions laws and engines, how much longer do you think they can keep making affordable little hotrods with blowers under the hood?

Have we got ten? Fifteen? Twenty years before they become too expensive to produce?

I'm thinking twelve years from now-- maybe fifteen years tops. I'd also expect the MSRP on these cars to go up a little every new production run.

What do you think?

yianni64

Infilation will see that in due time a Civic's base price is over 30k.

BonzoAPD

Yep, and the 3 series will be 75,000. It will be a sad day.

yianni64

But minimun wage will be $20 an hour. That how inflation works people.

98CoupeV6

Hey BB6, welcome to the forum. Glad to have you

I'm sure some of our better tech guys like jaje or viggen (or whatever the hell his name is now) can answer better, but here goes...

I'm confused about your question. The RX-8 (rotary) and Protege (I4) have no turbos. If your question is of small pocket rockets in general, I can tell you right now that the materials needed to produce them are only going to get cheaper as inflation rises. Many synthetic materials, such as high end plastics, are getting easier to produce. Cars are getting the same way as production efficiency rises. That is why the 2003 accord is basically the same price as the 2002, even with added goodies. The problem, again, is inflation. As idiots raise the minimum wage to please the poor people, EVERYTHING else goes up. People doesn't seem to understand that a boost in wages means a boost in consumer good prices.

You know how Ferraris used to be under 30 grand? It equates to about just as much as they are now. But they had no techno marvels, you say. That is true, but production used to cost a LOT more back then.

I think I kinda answerred your question...it all has to do with the economy. Are you asking whether they will be 30 grand? They will not be. Or are you asking if they will be semi-affordable? IMO, they will be.

DVPGSR

Yes I am the poster formerly known as Viggen.

It is kind of a fitting name for this topic since it is also the same name as Saab's top end 9-3...one of the best producers of turbo'd cars.

Anyway as for your questions posted above. Turbos are a great way for car manufacturers to increase the power in a smaller less powerfull engine. As increases in technology continue it will only make the production of turbos cheaper and cleaner. As for passing emissions there are many states that do not do emissions testing, and as far as I know it is California that is the toughest on emissions. I would think that laws would get tougher on SUVs before they start to make them stricter on smaller, more fuel efficient cars. A turbo'd 4-banger from the factory will be more fuel afficient than a V8 in mom's soccer mobile.

As for inflation...that is just a fact of life that unfortunately we will never be rid of. What we need to ensure is that the power if the dollar does not go down. Prices are higher and wages are higher than they were 50 years ago, but also American's are buying more things. For example, most families today have atleast 2 cars...usually more, as opposed to maybe 1, 50 years ago. Sure a Civic will cost $30,000 some day...but does it matter if you are making $60,000?

Well I hope I answered your question...let us know if you have more...we are all here to help.

Welcom to the board...you should like it here.

BB6Driver

02RSXTYPES, DVPGSR (Viggen), you did answer my vague question, thank you :)

Yes, I was referring to turbo cars. My mistake on the RX8 :p The Protege, however, is supposed to come in a Mazdaspeed turbo variant of 170HP within a year. Just not yet.

I'll wait on my next car a while longer :)

Until then....

jaje

in all turbos on cars do not help emissions...they even make diesels worse in pollution...for instance the wrx has 3 seperate cat converters and still can't hold a dime to an accord/civic or base sentras emissions

the way the big 3 stall and fight any innovation either for emissions, fuel mileage, and even safety will mean that methods of forced induction will be around for a while to come

i see the others caught it that hte rx8 and regular protege and protege5 are all n/a

DakarM

my 2.5 cents.

currently superchargers dominate the market. however, I predict that turbos will make a comeback.

remember when everything had a turbo on it? dodge minivans? toyota 4 runner?

then the posi. diaplacement superchargers lead the charge and superchargers are used more often by car makers.

I think in a few years we will see more turbo cars (it's already starting to make a come back). I think variable vane technology will lead the charge.

anytime there is a technical advance in either one, one technolgy will lead over the other, until there is another leap in technology.

of course there is always a chance that NA engines will also make a leap in technology and give power equal to that of a turbo engine.

98CoupeV6

Dakar, the main reason for everything having turbos was because NA engines were so inefficient at the time and made so little power because of all the restrictions. So why not throw a turbo on with those 15 cat converters that you've already got? SC's have many advantages, mainly being smoother operation, and alot more reliable. Of course that SC whine is bleh

On another note, notice how GM still uses SC's because THEY still cannot make power from NA engines. Why? Because they suck. I'd never buy an SC car. I can't stand that frikken belt whine.