30 years? I hope it's more like 15 at the longest... I do NOT want to be on the road surrounded by 85 year-old drivers everywhere...:eh: Marin County is geriatric enough to have seniors doing 40 mph in 75 mph freeway traffic. :eh:

 

:chuckles: Yeah, my Mom told me I have the right to take the keys away from her if she started driving like my grandfather.

 

Ok, even 15 years is plenty of time. They can easily make Toyota an old people brand and Scion a younger buy brand. So that way, they don't have to give up either of the market.

 

What? I'm confused...:dunno:

 

Oh...h: Let me back up a bit.

Up until 1998, Premium fuel in CA was rated at 93 RON, selling at about $1.89/gal [ :wtc: ] As more and more premium fuel went into the tanks of literally thousands of Lexi ,where it does little in term of performance, the refineries decided to "cheap out" and simply lower the amount of high-end stocks used in manufacturing premium fuel, lowering the octane rating to 91. Simultaneously, the average prices have risen dramatically to over $2.10/gallon.

Thus, as octane levels have dropped, so has the amount of compression / boost that can be run by real enthusiasts. Hence my disappointment at the situation.


Is that a better explanation?

 

Do you think the switch to 91 octane is solely because of Lexus?

 

I hardly consider the RSX a heavy plush car.

The only thing it lacks to the GS-R is the excellent steering feel. It does everything better other than that.

 

Wow, I can't believe you actually believe that Lexus caused the switch to 91 octane? How do you explain why the rest of the country still have 93 and even 100 octane fuel? What about all the other cars that uses premium fuel? Lexus is only a fraction of all the car that run high octane.

What does the gas prices have anything to do with it. 87 octane was affected too you know? You ever thought 9/11 might have caused the increased in price as well?

 

I agree with most of you. The RSX is superior to the Integra in every way except for the price of their aftermarket parts for now. Other than that, I see it as a nice update of the Integra. Also, the K20 engine has so much more potential than the B18.

 

Oh damn... no no no no no. .. that's not what I meant to say at all.. dang.

Scott Oldham at SCC ran an editorial dealing with this issue of lower octane on the west coast in an article back in 2000. I was too lazy to dig it up, and did a crappy job of summarizing. I'm sorry.

Oldham investigated why octane levels had dropped in SoCal starting in early 99, and when he made contact with three separate refineries, two owned by Chevron, one owned by Shell, all of them admitted to deliberately reducing their costs by cutting back on the high-end stocks for the WEST COAST REGION. They all claimed to have made this decision due to the phenomenal amount of premium fuel that was being purchased - and still is - in this specific region.

According to these two refineries , that refine the majority supply of gas for California, Oregon and Nevada, it was cheaper for them to lower octane levels, and sell the high-end stocks for use in other fields.

Similarly, in California, the number of executive saloons and coupes running around is quite exaggerated compared to many other areas of the nation. By volume, in Marin County, premium fuel outsells regular and plus by nearly three to one. :eh: Surely this must be the case in many affluent counties throughout the West Coast, and indeed the nation.

Question- has the East Coast been similarly affected? :huh:

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Now I freely admit the connection to my disdain for Lexus' choice to require premium was tenuous at best, so let me clarify that as well..

In my opinion, it is rediculous that a low-compression, low specific output V6 and V8 should "require" 91 octane. A more conservative ignition advance curve, along with other minor fuel map adjustments, should be sufficient to allow these motors to run on 89 RON.

All I am saying is that when you have 25 million people, 50 million cars and a significant majority of them seem to be "wasting" premium fuel on relatively low-output motors, we enthusiasts invariably wind up getting the short end of the stick, so to speak.

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IN CONCLUSION:
I am not "blaming" any manufacturer on the octane level drop. To do so is complete idiocy. It is a set of circumstances, both economic and political, that have come together to screw California driving enthusiasts yet again, and I'm pissed about it (still). h: