I would first like to preface this article by saying that all of the eco-friendlies need to get off the SUV bashing bandwagon and realize that it is not the classification of a vehicle that determines the sort of mileage it gets but how much it weighs and how efficient its motor is at moving that mass. So they need to realize that things like the CR-V aren't bad at all and instead bash all crappy mileage vehicles, including full sized trucks and my mom's Chrysler Town & Country which has never been north of 16 mpg except for extended highway jaunts.
[/rant]

Anyway here's the article.

(08:30 Nov. 12, 2003)
GM looking to get 20 mpg from full-size hybrid trucks

By RICHARD TRUETT | Automotive News

DETROIT -- General Motors' decision to build hybrid full-sized pickups and SUVs means those vehicles would deliver more than 20 mpg in city driving. That is about the same fuel economy as many mid-sized cars. Last week, GM made sweeping changes to its plans for more fuel-efficient vehicles, saying it will use gasoline-electric powertrains and displacement-on-demand technology in some of its highest volume vehicles. The changes are for the 2007 model year.

Thomas Stephens, GM's global powertrain chief, says the automaker will offer strong hybrid versions of the Chevrolet Silverado and Tahoe and GMC Sierra and Yukon. A scaled-down version of the hybrid powertrain developed by GM's Allison division for use in city buses would power the vehicles. The 5.3-liter V-8 would be mated to two 40-hp electric motors. A strong hybrid, such as the Toyota Prius, uses an electric motor to drive the vehicle at slow speeds. A mild hybrid uses an electric motor to provide boost upon acceleration. Both systems reduce tailpipe emissions. The GM trucks will use a 300-volt battery pack. Independent of the hybrid powertrain, the vehicles will use GM's displacement-on-demand technology. This is a computerized engine management system that turns off unneeded cylinders when the truck reaches highway speeds.

The total fuel economy gain from the hybrid powertrain and displacement-on-demand is estimated to be in the 30 percent to 35 percent range. That would increase the city mpg from its current 16 to more than 20. Stephens also says GM will cancel the strong-hybrid version of the Saturn Vue that was due in 2005 and instead offer a mild-hybrid Vue in 2006. That hybrid powertrain will be used in the Chevrolet Malibu sedan. It is expected to increase fuel economy in those vehicles between 12 percent and 15 percent, putting both vehicles at better than 25 mpg for city driving.

GM is sticking with its plans to produce a mild-hybrid version of the Silverado pickup that is to start production in about six weeks. GM will phase out that truck when the new one is introduced in the 2007 model year, a GM source says.

GM's announcement comes at a time when the Big 3 face increased pressure for lagging Japan-based automakers in hybrid vehicles. A Toyota source called the announcement "engineering by press release," saying GM is trying to buy time with public relations tactics while its competitors beat it to the technological punch.

Ford Motor Co. plans to start production of its mid-sized hybrid Escape HEV in July, followed by a gasoline-electric version of the upcoming Futura sedan. The Chrysler group is about a year from launching a diesel-electric version of the Ram pickup. The company has not announced plans to install a hybrid powertrain in any other vehicles.

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...._code=07622708

 

It's a good step for public relations. Personally I've never jumped on that "It's excessive and gets shitty mileage" bandwagon, witht the exception of the Hummer H2. Tahoes get better mileage because they're not completely square. They're just as functional, built better (which doesn't make any sense to me) and cost a lot less.

But anyway, it's good to see GM actually try to improve their product lineup.

 

it is a good step for public relations, i agree. but are they doing it for the sake of public relations? by developing these kinds of technologies, they are improving their product lineup, yes.. but i think one huge difference between GM and ford (not sure about chrysler) is that they'll only do things like this when they realize they're being beaten on all fronts, that they're losing market share, and that their public image is going downhill - so i think its all about public relations. toyota and honda are always the ones to take the first step in producing cleaner, more efficient and environmentally friendly cars - the big three do it when they have to. if the japanese weren't around, i think GM and ford would make gigantic, gas guzzling cars until the world's petroleum supply ran out.

yeah, i'm cynical. but i think its true

 

if you note GM is pushing it hybrid due date another 2 years back...the VUE was supposed to get a hybrid version in 2005 but is now cancelled as GM focuses on improving its gas mileage on its worst cars

gm is bigger than toyota and still doesn't have any hybrid anything...they've completely ignored the demand and the care for efficient engines and less pollution (most of its cars/trucks are just compliant with emissions and not industry leaders like a toyota or honda)

 

on one hand i would love to join you guys in bashing GM and Ford, but frankly i dont see a market for hybrids, and i dont blame them for ignoring that niche. i think honda and toyota have yet to see a profit on hybrids, and will likely struggle in the market for a while despite the lack of competition.

besides, whats the point? 20 mpg? cmon that still sucks. its better, but if i were in the market of a $40,000 tahoe or whatever, i probably wouldnt spend $6000 on a hybrid system if it was going to save me only 25% of my gas. that means that if i go 100,000 miles, i would only save about $2300. and thats in exchange for extra weight and complexity. hybrid systems should be implemented on commuter cars, not SUVs. of course, considering that in this country SUVs are commuter cars, its a moot point.

ugh, im sorry but driving 30 minutes to work everyday in a 6000 pound truck is STUPID. and ive gone off topic so ill end my rant here.

 

Dont know if this was ever posted here... but read this:

I thought id share this info.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....storyID=3545654
Hybrids Can Be Cheap to Make, Toyota Says
Thu October 2, 2003 06:05 AM ET
By Chang-Ran Kim, Asia auto correspondent
TOYOTA CITY, Japan (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp showed off the production site of its gasoline-electric hybrid cars to journalists for the first time on Thursday with a powerful message: they don't have to be expensive to make.

Not long ago, many leading auto makers, including the world's biggest, General Motors Corp, questioned the benefit of developing hybrid cars, arguing they are merely an interim solution before zero-emission fuel-cell vehicles take over.

They accused -- possibly accurately -- Toyota and Honda Motor Co, the only other mass-producer of gas-electric hybrid cars, of selling them at a loss given the labor-intensive assembly required.

There may have been some truth to that argument before, but no longer, says Toyota, which launched its second-generation Prius hybrid sedan in Japan last month.

"We used to build the previous Prius on an exclusive assembly line at the Takaoka plant, and later at Motomachi," said Kenji Takahara, head of administration at neighboring Tsusumi plant, which now builds the Prius.

"Now, it shares a line with four other mass-production sedans," he said.

That's a big and necessary step for Japan's top auto maker as it aims to offer the hybrid option on most of its models in the not-too-distant future. Toyota is hoping to sell 300,000 of the fuel-efficient vehicles a year starting mid-decade.

Hybrids use electric motors and battery packs to improve fuel efficiency, adding power during acceleration and reclaiming energy when braking and coasting. Toyota says the Prius gets 35.5 km per liter of gasoline, which is over 80 miles per gallon.

Visual comparisons with the production method for the previous Prius, launched in late 1997, are difficult since journalists were never allowed to visit the assembly site.

But the numbers speak for themselves: the Prius's current assembly line rolls out around one car every minute, versus one every eight to 10 minutes for the has improved by at least 15 percent for the current model, a factory official said.

"This is proof that mass production of the Prius has started in earnest," Takahara said.

BLENDING IN

Touring through the factory floor in this central Japanese city named after the auto maker, it is indeed difficult to tell there's any difference between a hybrid and a conventional car.

"The worker is installing the hybrid engine system into the Prius just like a regular gasoline engine," assembly manager Yoshihisa Nagatani says proudly, pointing at the shell of a Prius hanging on an overhead conveyor belt as it follows a Camry.

In addition to some tweaking of the assembly line required with any new model launch, mixed assembly has been made possible by the huge increase in projected sales, Toyota says.

The auto maker is aiming to sell 76,000 units of the new Prius a year globally, with 36,000 of that in Japan. Actual sales of the previous Prius was 28,000 units last year.

But the sales target is already looking extremely conservative. Toyota said on Thursday that orders in Japan reached 17,500 units in the first month. In the United States, where it goes on sale this month, orders topped 10,000 as of September 24.

Reflecting their popularity, every other car on the five-model assembly line at the Tsutsumi plant is a Prius.

In contrast, rival Honda says low volumes are forcing it to practically hand-build its Insight hybrid model, much like the NSX and S-2000 sports cars. Japan's second-largest auto maker admits that after four years of selling hybrids, it barely makes any profit on them.

Nevertheless, Toyota's feat in mass-producing its hybrid car should be an encouraging sign for other rivals as they follow Japan's top two auto makers into the market.

Among them, GM and Ford Motor Co are planning to introduce their first hybrid vehicles later this year. But with Ford admitting to doing so at a loss initially, it could be a while before they can emulate Toyota's success.

 

ok thats pretty interesting, samson. sounds like toyota is doing pretty well with the prius. i still say the market is small though and there really is no room for competition yet.

as far as the cost of the hybrid system, the only indicator ive seen as to its overall cost is the difference in price between a standard civic sedan dx, and a civic hybrid.

civic dx: $13,010
civic hybrid: $19,650

those are base MSRPs off of honda's website. thats a total difference in price of $6640.

granted, the prices are likely to come down, in light of the article above.

still, i just dont see hybrids ever becoming mainstream, and maybe american companies agree. maybe honda and toyota, instead of being on the leading edge of technology, are only making these cars as a statement, like a marketing scheme to reinforce their image as technology leaders.

just a thought

 

The article is really poorly written (AutoWeek should hire me as an editor) but anyway I'm not sure if this means the Malibu is getting the same mild-hybrid setup as the '06 Vue or if it's going to get the strong-hybrid setup that was originally slated for the Vue.

 

No on all accounts.

The Civic Hybrid, if you did a bit more research on Honda's website, has all of the EX's features plus a few more and, from what I've read, rides better and is more comfy than it. Why the hell are you comparing it to the cheapo DX? The actual cost of the system, excluding the millions of R&D, is somewhere close to $2-3,000. At least that's what it's worth in the market today...I'm not sure that Honda is making a profit off of Hybrid sales.

Hybrids are the way of the future. They will be a stepping stone to fuel cell vehicles. When gas costs 3-4-5 bucks a gallon here like it does in Europe in 5 or 10 years, you'll be seeing hybrid cars at every corner. Marketing scheme? Are you on drugs? You think they're spending hundreds of millions to reinforce their images? There's this little thing called "finite resources", and pretty soon demand is going to be up supply's ass and you'll be wishing you had 40 MPG.

 

im assuming he's comparing it in terms of gas mileage.