What Is Going On With My System?
04-28-2003, 01:09 PM
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What Is Going On With My System?
I have two Rockford Punch XLC 15's which I bought already installed in a pre-fabbed sealed box, and theyre being powered by a Rockford Punch 800.2 amp; the rest of the system is stock---head unit and speakers are all OEM. Running inline between the rear 6x9s (tapping signal) and the amp is an RCA converter.
My installer friend has the subs running in "parallel" and then bridged at the amp---this was done after I told him stereo mode on the amp wasnt satisfying me. What he did was tie both positive leads coming out of the sub box together, then the negatives, then took those combined wires and fed the combined positives to the left "+" terminal of the amp, and the combined negatives to the right "-" terminal of the amp....he claims my subs were then running in parallel and the amp was bridged, providing maximum power.
The specs for this 800.2 amp says it puts out 800 watts in bridged mono mode---which SHOULD be the way my installer has it set up---but does this sound right for getting the maximum power to two subs? Does the paralelling process I described sound right, and then bridged at the amp? If the specs say 800 watts x 1 mono, are my two subs "supposed to" be seeing those 800 watts, but its just split up between the two subs?
If the process sounds right, why is it people outside of my vehicle cant hear me coming from a distance? These are two 15's we are talking about...the enclosure is firing backwards---in other words, when you open my trunk, you see the subs facing you, and the box is pushed all the way against the rear seats as possible...is this right for maximum boom from a sealed enclosure, or does it depend on vehicle? Why cant people hear the bass from this system? Could it be my factory radio? Could it be the RCA converter? Are all these factors eating up this amp's potential power?
My installer friend has the subs running in "parallel" and then bridged at the amp---this was done after I told him stereo mode on the amp wasnt satisfying me. What he did was tie both positive leads coming out of the sub box together, then the negatives, then took those combined wires and fed the combined positives to the left "+" terminal of the amp, and the combined negatives to the right "-" terminal of the amp....he claims my subs were then running in parallel and the amp was bridged, providing maximum power.
The specs for this 800.2 amp says it puts out 800 watts in bridged mono mode---which SHOULD be the way my installer has it set up---but does this sound right for getting the maximum power to two subs? Does the paralelling process I described sound right, and then bridged at the amp? If the specs say 800 watts x 1 mono, are my two subs "supposed to" be seeing those 800 watts, but its just split up between the two subs?
If the process sounds right, why is it people outside of my vehicle cant hear me coming from a distance? These are two 15's we are talking about...the enclosure is firing backwards---in other words, when you open my trunk, you see the subs facing you, and the box is pushed all the way against the rear seats as possible...is this right for maximum boom from a sealed enclosure, or does it depend on vehicle? Why cant people hear the bass from this system? Could it be my factory radio? Could it be the RCA converter? Are all these factors eating up this amp's potential power?
04-28-2003, 02:42 PM
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It sounds like your subs are set right. I'm assuming your subs are 4 ohms each ( this may not be true) but if you wire both positives to the same positive on the amp and same for the negatives you have them run in parellel to the mono position on the amp. The amp will see a 2 ohm load and perform at its maximum. This will send 800 watts to both speakers and they will each see 400.
This will be plenty loud. I know subs that get 300 watts and you can hear 1/2 a block away. Check the gains on the amp, you can increase its sensitivity.
Also, the converter may cause a problem, Im not sure ive never used one before. That signal will be everything the rear speaker gets and if your bass is turned down on the stock stereo then the bass will be low to the amp and subs. Im not sure of this, try the sensitvity thing first.
This will be plenty loud. I know subs that get 300 watts and you can hear 1/2 a block away. Check the gains on the amp, you can increase its sensitivity.
Also, the converter may cause a problem, Im not sure ive never used one before. That signal will be everything the rear speaker gets and if your bass is turned down on the stock stereo then the bass will be low to the amp and subs. Im not sure of this, try the sensitvity thing first.
04-28-2003, 08:16 PM
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ok, first of all, are you buying speakers to entertain your neighbors?
and phalanx, i worked at a rockford shop for years and that amp does not enjoy a 2ohm load...it may run for years, ive seen some troopers but on a whole the amp is rated for maximum performance and sq at 2ohm STEREO or 4ohm MONO, but anyway it should be obnoxiously loud if properly installed (wire gague, ground, woofer mounting, enclosure, etc). look at the model number on your subs, i dont remember the xlc's number, but the last 3 should be 415 or 815..4 ohm 8 ohm...if they are 4 ohm, get new speakers or a new amp...if they are 8 ohm, propperly wired in parallel, then it should be loud enough to permanently damage your hearing...
upping the gains is something that should really only be done if you REALLY know what your doing...to a propperly trained installer it is a tool and volume control device, to a noob it a woofer killer...be careful. start with the gain down ALL the way, turn your deck up to your normal heavy bass listening volume and SLOWLY turn the gain up. turning the gain up has an effect on the volume and the THD (total harmonic distortion). louder=more distorted...
not all distortion is audible, but when it is your KILLING YOUR SPEAKERS! you want to be able to crank it w/o distortion.
and yes, ditch the oem equiptment, cuz your bass can be as loud as you want, a line level conv. will kill whatever sq you could hope to get. and factory speakers??? i would never tell anyone
to keep them...if nothing else, sell the 15's and amp, buy two 12's and get a good CLASS D amp and some subs of higher quality than xlc's and a nice ported box....youll be very happy
ps im from east islip origanally, what part of the island you on?
and phalanx, i worked at a rockford shop for years and that amp does not enjoy a 2ohm load...it may run for years, ive seen some troopers but on a whole the amp is rated for maximum performance and sq at 2ohm STEREO or 4ohm MONO, but anyway it should be obnoxiously loud if properly installed (wire gague, ground, woofer mounting, enclosure, etc). look at the model number on your subs, i dont remember the xlc's number, but the last 3 should be 415 or 815..4 ohm 8 ohm...if they are 4 ohm, get new speakers or a new amp...if they are 8 ohm, propperly wired in parallel, then it should be loud enough to permanently damage your hearing...
upping the gains is something that should really only be done if you REALLY know what your doing...to a propperly trained installer it is a tool and volume control device, to a noob it a woofer killer...be careful. start with the gain down ALL the way, turn your deck up to your normal heavy bass listening volume and SLOWLY turn the gain up. turning the gain up has an effect on the volume and the THD (total harmonic distortion). louder=more distorted...
not all distortion is audible, but when it is your KILLING YOUR SPEAKERS! you want to be able to crank it w/o distortion.
and yes, ditch the oem equiptment, cuz your bass can be as loud as you want, a line level conv. will kill whatever sq you could hope to get. and factory speakers??? i would never tell anyone
to keep them...if nothing else, sell the 15's and amp, buy two 12's and get a good CLASS D amp and some subs of higher quality than xlc's and a nice ported box....youll be very happy
ps im from east islip origanally, what part of the island you on?
04-29-2003, 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by Phalanx
It sounds like your subs are set right. I'm assuming your subs are 4 ohms each ( this may not be true) but if you wire both positives to the same positive on the amp and same for the negatives you have them run in parellel to the mono position on the amp. The amp will see a 2 ohm load and perform at its maximum. This will send 800 watts to both speakers and they will each see 400.
This will be plenty loud. I know subs that get 300 watts and you can hear 1/2 a block away. Check the gains on the amp, you can increase its sensitivity.
Also, the converter may cause a problem, Im not sure ive never used one before. That signal will be everything the rear speaker gets and if your bass is turned down on the stock stereo then the bass will be low to the amp and subs. Im not sure of this, try the sensitvity thing first.
It sounds like your subs are set right. I'm assuming your subs are 4 ohms each ( this may not be true) but if you wire both positives to the same positive on the amp and same for the negatives you have them run in parellel to the mono position on the amp. The amp will see a 2 ohm load and perform at its maximum. This will send 800 watts to both speakers and they will each see 400.
This will be plenty loud. I know subs that get 300 watts and you can hear 1/2 a block away. Check the gains on the amp, you can increase its sensitivity.
Also, the converter may cause a problem, Im not sure ive never used one before. That signal will be everything the rear speaker gets and if your bass is turned down on the stock stereo then the bass will be low to the amp and subs. Im not sure of this, try the sensitvity thing first.
As for the bass control, I make sure the bass on my Accord's stock head unit is cranked past half way when I pump the tunes----I know the head unit is going to control the bass because of the way the system is set up with the RCA converter and all; the bass is always turned up high as well, and even so, people dont really hear me coming -- I gotta tell you, though...inside the vehicle, sometimes the bass is so heavy it makes my in dash CD player skip and mistrack...this happens a lot.
04-29-2003, 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by overflow
ok, first of all, are you buying speakers to entertain your neighbors?
and phalanx, i worked at a rockford shop for years and that amp does not enjoy a 2ohm load...it may run for years, ive seen some troopers but on a whole the amp is rated for maximum performance and sq at 2ohm STEREO or 4ohm MONO, but anyway it should be obnoxiously loud if properly installed (wire gague, ground, woofer mounting, enclosure, etc). look at the model number on your subs, i dont remember the xlc's number, but the last 3 should be 415 or 815..4 ohm 8 ohm...if they are 4 ohm, get new speakers or a new amp...if they are 8 ohm, propperly wired in parallel, then it should be loud enough to permanently damage your hearing...
upping the gains is something that should really only be done if you REALLY know what your doing...to a propperly trained installer it is a tool and volume control device, to a noob it a woofer killer...be careful. start with the gain down ALL the way, turn your deck up to your normal heavy bass listening volume and SLOWLY turn the gain up. turning the gain up has an effect on the volume and the THD (total harmonic distortion). louder=more distorted...
not all distortion is audible, but when it is your KILLING YOUR SPEAKERS! you want to be able to crank it w/o distortion.
and yes, ditch the oem equiptment, cuz your bass can be as loud as you want, a line level conv. will kill whatever sq you could hope to get. and factory speakers??? i would never tell anyone
to keep them...if nothing else, sell the 15's and amp, buy two 12's and get a good CLASS D amp and some subs of higher quality than xlc's and a nice ported box....youll be very happy
ps im from east islip origanally, what part of the island you on?
ok, first of all, are you buying speakers to entertain your neighbors?
and phalanx, i worked at a rockford shop for years and that amp does not enjoy a 2ohm load...it may run for years, ive seen some troopers but on a whole the amp is rated for maximum performance and sq at 2ohm STEREO or 4ohm MONO, but anyway it should be obnoxiously loud if properly installed (wire gague, ground, woofer mounting, enclosure, etc). look at the model number on your subs, i dont remember the xlc's number, but the last 3 should be 415 or 815..4 ohm 8 ohm...if they are 4 ohm, get new speakers or a new amp...if they are 8 ohm, propperly wired in parallel, then it should be loud enough to permanently damage your hearing...
upping the gains is something that should really only be done if you REALLY know what your doing...to a propperly trained installer it is a tool and volume control device, to a noob it a woofer killer...be careful. start with the gain down ALL the way, turn your deck up to your normal heavy bass listening volume and SLOWLY turn the gain up. turning the gain up has an effect on the volume and the THD (total harmonic distortion). louder=more distorted...
not all distortion is audible, but when it is your KILLING YOUR SPEAKERS! you want to be able to crank it w/o distortion.
and yes, ditch the oem equiptment, cuz your bass can be as loud as you want, a line level conv. will kill whatever sq you could hope to get. and factory speakers??? i would never tell anyone
to keep them...if nothing else, sell the 15's and amp, buy two 12's and get a good CLASS D amp and some subs of higher quality than xlc's and a nice ported box....youll be very happy
ps im from east islip origanally, what part of the island you on?
I live in Rockville Centre, and work in Port Washington.
My original reason for wanting to add subs to my car was, yes, to get that reaction from people on the streets -- that "whooooa---what is THAT?" especially from the female population; I didnt see the point in doing tons of audio work to the car, just to keep the windows up and have nothing to really show off; I didnt want to harass any neighbors or disturb anyone at obscene hours or anything like that; it was mainly for boulevard cruising purposes; and yet still no one hears me in traffic.
I believe the stuff was installed properly; I watched my friend put the whole thing in----the box I bought already fabricated with the subs, so....but it is a sealed box, not ported, and these are XLCs---not the best in Rockford's lineup, considering their Power HE2s and the like---could it be these XLCs just suck major ass? This is what I have been told---but the other factors you mention are okay I believe; the grounding, gain settings, power cable---all okay...we used massive power cable and ground wire, and he used a Lightning Audio kit for fuses, etc...he assured me all wiring was done perfectly...it just seems that when I turn my head unit's volume half way up or past, THATS when things get rocking, not under half way...and then, suddenly, it seems like the system just gives up....and no one can hear the bass outside. Is it normal for systems to need to be turned up to the halfway point and beyond to really get kicking? Do most good systems work like that or no?
I understand about distortion and speakers----I used to have my own DJ business and home audio is a diehard hobby for me---this system in my car exhibits NO signs of distortion, I can tell you that. These subs are not bottoming out or anything; they just seem to give out and the bass isnt carrying outside of the vehicle. I have been told this can come from countless reasons, including the way my car is built---that is, it is very sound insulated. After all, the EX V-6 is the kissing cousin of the Acura CL, so one can expect more than decent sound isolation...
So, I dont need to mess with the gains (and I wouldnt do that myself anyway) because I was ASSURED by my installer friend that everything is set right---he guaranteed all gains are pretty much way up (and yet still no distortion---amazing). As for the ohms of my subs...well...that has ALWAYS been an issue...I am not sure what model XLCs I have; I have always assumed they were the 4 ohm models, dropped down to a 2 ohm load when running parallel....so, the amp is seeing a 2 ohm load...does that mean it is STILL pumping out that 800 watts x 1 rating?
As for the OEM speakers, I wasnt really going for SQ in this system, and the factory speakers and head unit sound absolutely fine to me. I just wanted to add monstrous bass to the factory set up, to get some street attention; but it seems adding this box and amp has become more of a headache than just having a complete custom system dropped in -- the factory head unit seems to be handicapping the performance of the amp and subs for some reason; I have heard there is a bass reducing circuit Alpine (OEM supplier for Honda) puts in the Honda radios, reducing bass as you up the volume so there is no damage to OEM speakers.....
04-29-2003, 07:04 AM
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Rockford punch XLC specs:
Impedance 4 ohms / 8 ohms
Peak Power 200 / 400 Watts
Sensitivity 92dB
FS (Hz) 23 / 25
Voice Coil Diameter (inches) 2.0
Mounting Depth (inches) 7-1/8
Recommended Enclosure Sealed=2.5 / Vented=2.5
Rockford punch 800.2 specs:
400 watts x 2 at 2 ohms
800 watts x 1 in bridged mode
stereo, bridged mono or Tri-Way output
50-210 Hz high-pass/low-pass crossovers, 12 dB/octave
wired remote control included for fingertip control of Punch Bass (boosts bass 0-18 dB, centered at 45 Hz)
MOSFET power supply and output devices
MEHSA mounting technology increases the heat transfer from the MOSFET output devices to the heat sink, for higher power output, lower operating temperatures, and greater reliability
TOPAZ — noise-killing differential inputs that eliminate 80% of ground loop noise
Trans•ana circuitry keeps preamp voltages low and signal paths simple for outstanding audio quality
NOMAD — advanced protection circuitry for "intelligent" shutdown protection
speaker-level inputs
60-amp fuse and fuse holder required
dimensions: 18-7/16"W (14-7/8" without endcaps) x 2-7/16"H x 9-7/8"D
3-year warranty
The amp runs bridged 800 watts at 4 ohms... but you have your subs running parallel which shows the amp 2 ohms. I think you're killing your amp which is running bridged and being shown 2 ohms... with it's gains all the way up. Can you spell distortion?
Hasnt this issue been vistited before in many many threads by you on this very subject? Maybe rcurley & siclone remember
Impedance 4 ohms / 8 ohms
Peak Power 200 / 400 Watts
Sensitivity 92dB
FS (Hz) 23 / 25
Voice Coil Diameter (inches) 2.0
Mounting Depth (inches) 7-1/8
Recommended Enclosure Sealed=2.5 / Vented=2.5
Rockford punch 800.2 specs:
400 watts x 2 at 2 ohms
800 watts x 1 in bridged mode
stereo, bridged mono or Tri-Way output
50-210 Hz high-pass/low-pass crossovers, 12 dB/octave
wired remote control included for fingertip control of Punch Bass (boosts bass 0-18 dB, centered at 45 Hz)
MOSFET power supply and output devices
MEHSA mounting technology increases the heat transfer from the MOSFET output devices to the heat sink, for higher power output, lower operating temperatures, and greater reliability
TOPAZ — noise-killing differential inputs that eliminate 80% of ground loop noise
Trans•ana circuitry keeps preamp voltages low and signal paths simple for outstanding audio quality
NOMAD — advanced protection circuitry for "intelligent" shutdown protection
speaker-level inputs
60-amp fuse and fuse holder required
dimensions: 18-7/16"W (14-7/8" without endcaps) x 2-7/16"H x 9-7/8"D
3-year warranty
The amp runs bridged 800 watts at 4 ohms... but you have your subs running parallel which shows the amp 2 ohms. I think you're killing your amp which is running bridged and being shown 2 ohms... with it's gains all the way up. Can you spell distortion?
Hasnt this issue been vistited before in many many threads by you on this very subject? Maybe rcurley & siclone remember
04-29-2003, 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by moofoo
Rockford punch XLC specs:
Impedance 4 ohms / 8 ohms
Peak Power 200 / 400 Watts
Sensitivity 92dB
FS (Hz) 23 / 25
Voice Coil Diameter (inches) 2.0
Mounting Depth (inches) 7-1/8
Recommended Enclosure Sealed=2.5 / Vented=2.5
Rockford punch 800.2 specs:
400 watts x 2 at 2 ohms
800 watts x 1 in bridged mode
stereo, bridged mono or Tri-Way output
50-210 Hz high-pass/low-pass crossovers, 12 dB/octave
wired remote control included for fingertip control of Punch Bass (boosts bass 0-18 dB, centered at 45 Hz)
MOSFET power supply and output devices
MEHSA mounting technology increases the heat transfer from the MOSFET output devices to the heat sink, for higher power output, lower operating temperatures, and greater reliability
TOPAZ — noise-killing differential inputs that eliminate 80% of ground loop noise
Trans•ana circuitry keeps preamp voltages low and signal paths simple for outstanding audio quality
NOMAD — advanced protection circuitry for "intelligent" shutdown protection
speaker-level inputs
60-amp fuse and fuse holder required
dimensions: 18-7/16"W (14-7/8" without endcaps) x 2-7/16"H x 9-7/8"D
3-year warranty
The amp runs bridged 800 watts at 4 ohms... but you have your subs running parallel which shows the amp 2 ohms. I think you're killing your amp which is running bridged and being shown 2 ohms... with it's gains all the way up. Can you spell distortion?
Hasnt this issue been vistited before in many many threads by you on this very subject? Maybe rcurley & siclone remember
Rockford punch XLC specs:
Impedance 4 ohms / 8 ohms
Peak Power 200 / 400 Watts
Sensitivity 92dB
FS (Hz) 23 / 25
Voice Coil Diameter (inches) 2.0
Mounting Depth (inches) 7-1/8
Recommended Enclosure Sealed=2.5 / Vented=2.5
Rockford punch 800.2 specs:
400 watts x 2 at 2 ohms
800 watts x 1 in bridged mode
stereo, bridged mono or Tri-Way output
50-210 Hz high-pass/low-pass crossovers, 12 dB/octave
wired remote control included for fingertip control of Punch Bass (boosts bass 0-18 dB, centered at 45 Hz)
MOSFET power supply and output devices
MEHSA mounting technology increases the heat transfer from the MOSFET output devices to the heat sink, for higher power output, lower operating temperatures, and greater reliability
TOPAZ — noise-killing differential inputs that eliminate 80% of ground loop noise
Trans•ana circuitry keeps preamp voltages low and signal paths simple for outstanding audio quality
NOMAD — advanced protection circuitry for "intelligent" shutdown protection
speaker-level inputs
60-amp fuse and fuse holder required
dimensions: 18-7/16"W (14-7/8" without endcaps) x 2-7/16"H x 9-7/8"D
3-year warranty
The amp runs bridged 800 watts at 4 ohms... but you have your subs running parallel which shows the amp 2 ohms. I think you're killing your amp which is running bridged and being shown 2 ohms... with it's gains all the way up. Can you spell distortion?
Hasnt this issue been vistited before in many many threads by you on this very subject? Maybe rcurley & siclone remember
Yes I have discussed this here before. Im trying to decide if I can get a handle on whats going on with this before ditching the system completely. I am telling you----I guarantee it---I am not experiencing any distortion with this set up....I can turn the head unit up and there is no distortion....its just that the system seems to "give up"; the bass doesnt want to crank after a certain point...can this be the beginnings of distortion? Honestly, it doesnt seem like this amp is putting out anywhere NEAR 800 watts....it does not, at all.
