96 Accord LX 5 speed stick with intermittent starting problem
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96 Accord LX 5 speed stick with intermittent starting problem
Any educated suggestions or guesses on the following would be much appreciated. Also the more details you are able to offer, the better. My Chilton manual does NOT have any detail in this area. I have not figured out how to get the cover off the relay/fuse box and Chilton does not tell you. I’m trying not to do the guerilla thing to my car.
96 Accord LX with manual transmission and about 235K miles. Has been serviced regularly since new. Intermittent starting problem has come and gone for about 3 years. Was very infrequent but is now a problem about 20% of the time. Weather does not appear to be a factor. Battery is solid and a jump start will NOT WORK because the battery is fine. The local shop I have used for years changed out the starter twice. That had no effect. The clutch safety switch can be heard engaging each time I press the clutch peddle with the ignition in the start position. Also, with the ignition switch on, all normal panel lights come on, fan, lights, etc… work fine but NO TURNOVER AT ALL. Does not even try to turn over. I can push start and pop the clutch when this happens without a problem. After push start often starts with ignition switch without a problem other than becoming a more frequent problem in general. I do have a car alarm that was installed by the dealer. Tried disabling the alarm with a button that comes with it for valet, etc…. Same intermittent start problem still exists.
A local parts guy suggested the Starter Cut Relay but my Chilton manual only points out the general location and I am a novice so I am not doing well at figuring out which relay it is and how to remove/replace it. He also suggested maybe the cable from battery to starter could be offering too much resistance/voltage drop. I look forward to your input.
96 Accord LX with manual transmission and about 235K miles. Has been serviced regularly since new. Intermittent starting problem has come and gone for about 3 years. Was very infrequent but is now a problem about 20% of the time. Weather does not appear to be a factor. Battery is solid and a jump start will NOT WORK because the battery is fine. The local shop I have used for years changed out the starter twice. That had no effect. The clutch safety switch can be heard engaging each time I press the clutch peddle with the ignition in the start position. Also, with the ignition switch on, all normal panel lights come on, fan, lights, etc… work fine but NO TURNOVER AT ALL. Does not even try to turn over. I can push start and pop the clutch when this happens without a problem. After push start often starts with ignition switch without a problem other than becoming a more frequent problem in general. I do have a car alarm that was installed by the dealer. Tried disabling the alarm with a button that comes with it for valet, etc…. Same intermittent start problem still exists.
A local parts guy suggested the Starter Cut Relay but my Chilton manual only points out the general location and I am a novice so I am not doing well at figuring out which relay it is and how to remove/replace it. He also suggested maybe the cable from battery to starter could be offering too much resistance/voltage drop. I look forward to your input.
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From: SW Florida
How are the battery cable connections to the battery? Do a voltage drop test.
In case yout have an internal break in the battery, have you tried another battery?
A bad starter relay is a good bet and so are poor battery cables.
The electrical part of the ignition switch could also be the culprit.
Look at the whole thing as a learning experience.
In case yout have an internal break in the battery, have you tried another battery?
A bad starter relay is a good bet and so are poor battery cables.
The electrical part of the ignition switch could also be the culprit.
Look at the whole thing as a learning experience.
Last edited by gulfview; Feb 15, 2007 at 10:02 AM.
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New additional symptoms
Thank you, gulfview, for your response. I am more used to working on computers than cars so it is taking me some time to get oriented to the manuals and figuring out how to get to the test points and relays, etc.... That is not stopping the "no start" symptom from getting worse. Is there a place in the 1379 page 1994 Service Manual or the 280 page 1996 Update to find practical, down to earth procedures to test and measure? Otherwise, I will just keep familiarizing myself with the material.
In response to your questions, my biggest challenge is that I have no help so far so I am trying to do this alone. The battery cable connections look solid and I will have to see if there is a way I can do the voltage drop test. The battery does not appear to be an issue because, when the car will not start, a jump start from AAA does nothing. So far as I know, only a push or roll start will get it going again. The starter, which appears to include the starter relay, has been changed out twice without helping the problem. I am working on figuring out how to test the electrical part of the ignition switch.
I have another observation when the problem happens in addition to a new problem symptom. The observation is that when I turn the ignition key to the start position, I do hear a hum. It is NOT a click. It is a hum. It will hum as long as I hold it there but only if the clutch is pushed in. Also, my latest symptom which may or may not be related, is that when I push started the car yesterday, the check engine light came on and it is on always now when the car is on. In addition, after it first came on, if I went over 3000 RPM, the engine would cut out completely. It did not die at all, it just cut out. As long as I up-shifted and kept it under 3000 RPM, it drove fine. I stopped somewhere for 30 minutes. When I started the car the next time (it did start that time) the check engine light was still on but I did not have the 3000 RPM limitation at all. For what it's worth. I will keep plodding along since I must have a car that I can count on. I do not have that now. Thanks again for your thoughts. I may be a novice but I am determined.
In response to your questions, my biggest challenge is that I have no help so far so I am trying to do this alone. The battery cable connections look solid and I will have to see if there is a way I can do the voltage drop test. The battery does not appear to be an issue because, when the car will not start, a jump start from AAA does nothing. So far as I know, only a push or roll start will get it going again. The starter, which appears to include the starter relay, has been changed out twice without helping the problem. I am working on figuring out how to test the electrical part of the ignition switch.
I have another observation when the problem happens in addition to a new problem symptom. The observation is that when I turn the ignition key to the start position, I do hear a hum. It is NOT a click. It is a hum. It will hum as long as I hold it there but only if the clutch is pushed in. Also, my latest symptom which may or may not be related, is that when I push started the car yesterday, the check engine light came on and it is on always now when the car is on. In addition, after it first came on, if I went over 3000 RPM, the engine would cut out completely. It did not die at all, it just cut out. As long as I up-shifted and kept it under 3000 RPM, it drove fine. I stopped somewhere for 30 minutes. When I started the car the next time (it did start that time) the check engine light was still on but I did not have the 3000 RPM limitation at all. For what it's worth. I will keep plodding along since I must have a car that I can count on. I do not have that now. Thanks again for your thoughts. I may be a novice but I am determined.
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From: SW Florida
The hum is the fuel pump coming on.
You could buy a voltmeter (multitester -- $10) from Walmart and the like and start by taking voltages -- at the battery posts (should be at least 12.5 V), battery cables, the starter, etc. -- to give you a beginning.
The main starter relay -- often a problem -- is under the dashboard inside the car.
You could buy a voltmeter (multitester -- $10) from Walmart and the like and start by taking voltages -- at the battery posts (should be at least 12.5 V), battery cables, the starter, etc. -- to give you a beginning.
The main starter relay -- often a problem -- is under the dashboard inside the car.
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I didn't read anything about your distributor and spark plugs...are they in good shape? How about fuel pump/lines? Although, I would think that problems with those will probably be more frequent than 20%....but just throwing out ideas..