Notices

Redline Water Wetter

Thread Tools
 
Old Oct 31, 2002 | 10:27 AM
  #41  
Scott T's Avatar
Scott T
Junior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Default

Originally posted by fujiwara takumi
antifreeze is a less effective coolant than water, much less. the only reason its there is for anticorrosion and anti freezing.

No no no - that is dead wrong. It raises the boiling point considerably - are you paying attention? Water at sea level boils at 212 F, 220 or 225 under 1 atmosphere pressure. Since thermostats open between 180-195 F, that doesn't leave much margin for error. Anti-freeze raises the boiling point to over 250 F, as high as 276 - this is a huge difference.

It is true that water alone has a higher HEAT CAPACITY, but it is less efficient as a coolant due to the low boiling point. In addition, because water has such a high heat capacity, it also has a slooow heat transfer rate - so it must be in contact with the hot surface longer to maximixe its cooling ability. This makes it less efficient at high speeds when the water pump is cranking and coolant is moving through the system faster.

In other words - the time when you need cooling the most is the time when water is least efficient.
Reply
Old Oct 31, 2002 | 10:32 AM
  #42  
Fujiwara Takumi's Avatar
Fujiwara Takumi
It's my first day.
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,635
Likes: 0
From: Grafton, WI.
Default

i only know its abilities through its interactions with my computer, i know that a good way to kill your computer is by running anti freeze.

now...core temp on my computer runs higher than the fluids leaving my engine, and the pump pushes the water at a faster velocity...
Reply
Old Oct 31, 2002 | 10:45 AM
  #43  
Scott T's Avatar
Scott T
Junior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Default

Originally posted by fujiwara takumi
i only know its abilities through its interactions with my computer, i know that a good way to kill your computer is by running anti freeze.

now...core temp on my computer runs higher than the fluids leaving my engine, and the pump pushes the water at a faster velocity...
Apples and oranges - is core temperature on your computer in he neighborhood of 400 F like it is near the cylinders in your car? What is the cooling surface / volume ratio inside your computer vs a car engine?

Anyways, 5 minutes research turned up the reason ethylene glycol is not useful for computer cooling - it is too thick, and does not flow at high speed through the tiny capillary cooling ducts in a computer.

Feel free to try driving 90+ MPH on a 90+ degree day for a hundred miles at a time with 100% water in your engine. (I do it all the time on trips). Water will work fine as long as you don't boil it - but you have much less margin with pure water than with a coolant.
Reply
Old Oct 31, 2002 | 10:54 AM
  #44  
Fujiwara Takumi's Avatar
Fujiwara Takumi
It's my first day.
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,635
Likes: 0
From: Grafton, WI.
Default

core temperature on a cpu can be near 1500 degrees, mine is generally between 300-400

here is what sensors nearby report:

Reply
Old Oct 31, 2002 | 11:00 AM
  #45  
Scott T's Avatar
Scott T
Junior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Default

Originally posted by Scott T
Anyways, 5 minutes research turned up the reason ethylene glycol is not useful for computer cooling - it is too thick, and does not flow at high speed through the tiny capillary cooling ducts in a computer.
I added that edit just a minute ago.

One other difference between cooling a car and computer - cars must be able to drive in 90-100 + degree heat without boiling. High-speed computers are generally kept in air-conditioned rooms below 70. That makes a huge difference in the cooling efficiency.

And supercomputers with 1500 degree cores are cooled by freon.
Reply
Old Oct 31, 2002 | 11:11 AM
  #46  
Fujiwara Takumi's Avatar
Fujiwara Takumi
It's my first day.
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,635
Likes: 0
From: Grafton, WI.
Default

Originally posted by Scott T
I added that edit just a minute ago.

One other difference between cooling a car and computer - cars must be able to drive in 90-100 + degree heat without boiling. High-speed computers are generally kept in air-conditioned rooms below 70. That makes a huge difference in the cooling efficiency.

And supercomputers with 1500 degree cores are cooled by freon.
not athlons, there's no way to accurately read a core temp...but 198 is a nearby temp, so you gotta figure that its running as hot as an engine.

considering nearby temps of a car and nearby temps of a computer are comparable...

though the thickness isnt the problem with antifreeze and computer cooling, its got to do with the heat transfer not being as efficient as water. water wetter is actually a pretty good substitute for it.
Reply
Old Oct 31, 2002 | 11:25 AM
  #47  
Scott T's Avatar
Scott T
Junior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Default

Originally posted by fujiwara takumi
not athlons, there's no way to accurately read a core temp...but 198 is a nearby temp, so you gotta figure that its running as hot as an engine.

considering nearby temps of a car and nearby temps of a computer are comparable...

though the thickness isnt the problem with antifreeze and computer cooling, its got to do with the heat transfer not being as efficient as water. water wetter is actually a pretty good substitute for it.
Ok you're missing my point - the huge difference is in the ambient temperature - it is a lot easier to cool the coolant back down (after it has done its job) if the anbient temperature is cooler - in fact, heat transfer is a logarithmic process, so a 20-30 degree difference in ambient temp is huge. If the outside temp is 100 degrees, the water coming out of the radiator is probably still 130-140 degrees - which increases the chance of boiling after another trip through the engine.

And viscosity IS the issue - go here

http://www.overclockers.com/articles609/index02.asp

Here is a key excerpt:

**************************************
Antifreeze vs Methanol
What we're looking at here are two very comparable substances. The differences between them are often times negligible, with Methanol generally acting a little bit better then Antifreeze. Where the differences REALLY become evident is in the Viscosity. The Viscosity of Methanol is what really gives it a HUGE lead over Antifreeze from the word go; and the colder it gets, the more apparent that fact becomes.

Antifreeze is most definitely a great product for cars because they operate at 200+ degrees. Viscosity doesn't become much of an issue in that kind of heat because heat thins it out. Methanol would be terrible in a car because of its extremely low evaporation point. Alternately, it's also why Antifreeze is going to be terrible in your computer. Viscosity becomes a BIG issue in computer cooling, especially the colder you go.
***************************************

Yes - water is the most EFFICIENT coolant, but it is not as EFFECTIVE in automotive application because of the low boiling point. (Which is what I should have said in the first place)
Reply
Old Oct 31, 2002 | 05:43 PM
  #48  
Redcivic's Avatar
Redcivic
One of the original OG's
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,429
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, Texas
Default

Wow I knew they were using liquids in cooling CPU's. I have never actually seen a liquid cooled one though.
Reply
Old Oct 31, 2002 | 06:01 PM
  #49  
Fujiwara Takumi's Avatar
Fujiwara Takumi
It's my first day.
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,635
Likes: 0
From: Grafton, WI.
Default

Originally posted by Redcivic
Wow I knew they were using liquids in cooling CPU's. I have never actually seen a liquid cooled one though.
come over some time
Reply




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:05 AM.