dicivicHB

thanks jafro....info is much appreciated....not sure what i'll do with my old B8, i was just interested....i mean, i think it'd be cool yeah, but not sure if it'd be worth all the effort....of course....if i did build the B8, it wouldn't end up being much of a B8 when i'm done....i had ideas of port/polished v-tec D16 heads, eagle rods, much better fuel system, boosted, etc etc....so to keep it a true B8, no, i wouldn't do that, the only thing that would really be a true B8 would be the block...so i dunno...just a thought i had to throw into the wind...thanks fellas

s1ngle

jafro :bowdown:

However, while having a tiny SMIC and BOV shoved in your bumper is neat, its definitely not as efficient as an FMIC. THats why i'm getting a small, stealth fmic. i still might hide that BOV, not a bad idea.... i was even gonna re circulate BOV gases....

Jafro

recirculating the BOV isnt' as necessary on a Honda as it is for other cars, but it certainly does make the BOV a lot quieter. If you hide the BOV, it will make recirculating very difficult.

Stock DSM's on average run twice the boost than the average boosted Honda does. They make 210hp from the factory, and have 33% more displacement than all civic motors. That SMIC should work fine, but you're right... intercoolers are a lot more efficient when you place them where the most air flows. SMIC's are more prone to heat soak if they're not placed well.

dicivicHB

ha ha....so i was checkin out some of the stuff i could get for my d15b8 to build it up....wow...so totally not worth what i'd have to pay to make it a real machine....i estimate a good 8G worth of parts to make it hit over the 200hp mark...i gots an excel document if anyone's interested.

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hi, i am looking into an inexpensive method of gaining around 60-65 hp for my cx.
first, i would like to swap the d15b8 head and ecu with a d15b7 head and ecu, and i am curious if the ex manifold will work on the dx head, since the z6 head is vtec and b7 head is not, is everything the same on the intake side? and if not, then could i just use an ex TB? ...

i would also like to add aem fuel rail, im thinking 310 cc injectors, fuel pump(can i use 1 from the teggie?), higher capacity wires, aem-style long cold air intake, p06 ecu with a dx chip from auto-motivo (ebay)
aem adjustable cam gear, header, rammed cat, cat back(they make full exaust kits and have them on ebay for like 200 with header, cat, and cat back/muffler), new timing belt, lightwieght underdrive pully, ngk or bosch coppers, ex transmission(im assuming and hoping the ex tranny from the z6 will fit with the b8 block), short shifter.

So, we have:

d15b7 head (port and polish?)
d15b7 P06 ecu performance chipped for non-vtec
d16z6 intake manifold(will it work?)
if not, then:
d16z6 throttle body(should fit the b7 intake manifold)
AEM adjustable cam gear
AEM style long cold air intake
steel mesh style or K&N cone filter
higher capacity plug wires
ngk or bosch copper plugs
aftermarket ignition system(such as msd)
310cc injectors
new distributor
new timing belt
new piston rings
new connecting rods(aftermarket)
new stock pistons
new stock crankshaft(should that matter?)
new oil pan modded with baffles
new axles
new quality headgasket
new valve cover gasket
new crank seals?
new rod bearings?
new main bearings?
new stock axles
new cooling system hoses
aluminum "racing" radiator
audi 85-89 4000cs quattro radiator fan(very high powered!!)
mod to fit radiator
remove a/c system
AEM lightwieght underdrive pully
ex/si transmission
exedy or aftermarket stage 1 clutch and 8.5 lb flywheel kit
short shifter
drilled and slotted rotors and performance pads for the front

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things i am also not certain about: where is the ignition coil on the stock setup? shouldent i be able to add an ignition system?

how do i create a more aggressive timing with the dx dizzy; can it be advanced like normal on other vehicles?

are 310cc injectors too much? what are the stock d16z6 injectors? will they work?

can i use a fuel pump from an integra?

shouldent i be able to use new stock pistons?

i believe that since the d15b8 has toothpick rods, but decent pistons for light applications(same as dx) i should be able to make a decent team with aftermarket rods and stock pistons. am i wrong?

if im going to be on the bottom end, should i go ahead and replace the bearings(main and rod) while im down there? and the seals?

ive noticed that the d15b8 engines produce an unusual amount of tourqe, in hp-tq ratios. compared to the hp-tq ratios of the 1.6 engines, where there is less tq. in the case of the 15's, i think the cx has maybe more than the dx does, although i could be wrong, but i havent heard the same touqe claims from any dx yet, so far its just been the cx. so, if this is right, wouldnt it be smarter to go with the block with more touqe? instead of just swapping in a 150$ d15b7?

the chipped P06 seems like a good idear. any maf sensors to worry about? if im not mistaken, everything is taken care of @ the throttle body, and in this case, would i be able to use an air/fuel controller?

(an a/f controller for a dx head lol)

i wouldnt be working with that great of a range, but at least ill be in control of the mixture from the cockpit...that is the goal.

will the ex tranny fit to the b8 block? its rumored to...actually, its rumored that theyre all interchangeable between 15's and 16's.

in this case, couldent i use an old si tranny from an 88-91 si civic or crx?

those d engines seem to be different than the multi point d engines, as i belive they were single point fi, and i dont know if there is anything different about the blocks so...

is there anything else reasonable i could do to the engine while still keeping it simple? and not "over-building" as to turn it into " a museum peice that everyone will question the logic of" ??

well, im thinking that with the aforementioned mods, i should have a nice strong engine that will last. i have a feeling that this may produce more than i expected, with new pistons, rings, etc. so the compression should be aight.

i am curious if i should port & polish the head, if it will make that much difference?

will it be okay to turn a lightwieght set of motegi 16's?

i would be happy enough to keep up with my freinds 83 celica gt-s. its packin a 22re engine, and a modded intake & ignition and my cx is no match for that thing. besides, we only run on mountain backroads late @ night, so im not at all interested in drag racing. it ceases to be an important part of the mission when your slamming through curves. i just need enough power to take the hills and accelerate more quickly from the turns. i think this engine setup paired with 2" lowered coilovers, lower tie bars and camber correction kit shall wield better results. i would like to keep my engine wieght light, for power to wieght, vehichle wieght balance, and handling reasons. if i put a heavier b series in there, its better displacement, but then ill have to spend a decent amount of money on a suspension setup to deal with that wieght difference, plus the car will handle slightly different. after hours of "blasting" through the curves up on the flat parts, i can feel how light that little engine is up front, and id like to keep it that way. my goal is to eventually save and get a jdm d15b vtec and build the everloving shit out of it, and throw about 8 -10 psi to it. it would be a venomous sick little engine, and i think i could get 170 out of it. displacement would be an issue, so i could only fully enjoy it with no passenger i suppose. but for now, financially, i must go the long slow route. im hoping to have this finished by spring of next year. my hp goal with this engine setup is 130-135, about that of a stock b18b ...

anyone with any help i would greatly appreciate it :]

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The valves suck, the manifolds are tiny, the rods are light and weak, the pistons are crap, the fasteners are junk, the crank has thin rod journals, and the wrist pins are dinky. -jafro

....what could i do about the valves as well? is there an aftermarket performance valve kit? aftermarket rods will fix the rod problem, and im hoping the "crap" pstons will be enough for my n/a application...but what about the fastners? and the wrist pins? would that be too much trouble to fix? or would it even matter below the 150 hp range?

Civic2Scooby

you are wasting way too much money on a build that will get you about 40hp if that. The "performance chip" doesn't do jack shit. also why were you upgrading the injectors to a larger size, this isn't needed with the build you are doing. Also an aftermarket ignition system is not needed for your setup as the stock one will handle just fine. Underdrive pullies are also a waste of money. With all the money you are dumping into this d15b7 you could have just bought a d16z6 and had about the same horsepower, while saving a shit ton of money. The d15b7 is not worth modding.

also all this talk about the heavier B series is false it literally weighs like 40 pounds more than the D series and won't disrupt your suspension setup one inkling. Also a stock b18b will put out way more trq. for about 1000 bucks which from your list is less than you are gonna spend on your paperweight you could slam a b18b in there and have WAY more fun. Also it is much more apt for boosting down the road.

yes you "can" use an older CRX tranny but you would need a cable to hydro conversion kit as the old transmissions are cable clutched while your car is hydraulic.

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thanks for your advice. i agree it would be a waste of money, i was hoping to do that with about 1,300(thats with ex tranny) with parts from ebay and the local salvage yards.
i suppose that modding a d15b7 isnt at all like modding the old d16's from the 88-91 dx. i would not argue with anyone that a b series is the way to go, i was under the impression they wieghed about 75 lbs more. but 40 lbs is hardly a difference. thanks for clearing that up for me, i was unsure of the weight difference. it seemed like a cute idea, and since im looking for an inexpensive temporary solution id still be better off just doing a swap.
i was inspired to read of jafro's cx to dx head swap, and was thinking that by doing that i could have acess to the common dx mods such as air intake, header, exaust, cam gear, etc. like the 88-91 civic dx d16 did. i suppose the d15b7 dx engine and the d16 from te 88-91 dx(i cant remember the code) are i bit different. because with the 88-91 dx hatch, you could actually give it a little more power by addding the si tranny, intake and header/exaust, cam, advance the timing, "chipped" ecu(for what thats worth), etc. i was under the impression that a mod chip would alter the engine management system, but was unsure of exactly how and if its even that noticable, why wont it help? is the engine design just not capable enough to respond to the chip, visa-versa, or is it all just hype...

the reason i wanted to do this was that i wanted to able take hills without losing too much speed, and to be able to maintain speed in traffic, plus the advantages of having an ex tranny. it does seem like much more time, $ and trouble to go through vs a swap. since my clutch went out on the cx, i am forced to drive my truck, and i deliver pizza. the cx was great for putting in 5-7$ worth of gas and profiting at least 50 clear a night.

the cx is in rough shape though. the oil pan is dented, there is a blown seal in the tranny on the pass side which leaks about 1 qt every 4 days. the block is old(1992) and the piston rings are almost gone, as it smokes in the higher rpm range. there may be a cam seal leak as well. so i was thinking, if i have to replace the clutch, may as well replace the whole tranny with an ex($300). then may as well add a "stage 1" light flywheel and clutch kit($190). of course that made me curious what i would get from doing that, and then i stumble upon jafro's cx to dx head swap, so then im thinking i can just run down to the local yard, pick up a b7 head & ecu($100), slap it on there, add the intake($30)/header/exaust($200) and better cooling system($120), and change the oil pan($50), and since i was down there pull the pistons and rods and fix that problem with maybe aftermarket or vx rods + high compression pistons, rings, etc($300). but it would still be a 1.5 liter. and im having doubts that it could pull up hills riding around on 16's, if it wont een give me what a mildy modded d16 from an 88-91 dx would do. and for all that i could just buy a d16 z6 and an ex/si tranny, with maybe enough left over for an intake/ header /exaust, oil change, and lucas treatment. but i would have an engine thats expandable, vs a dead end investment that cant be built practically past the 140 hp limit, which a d16zc, z6, and b18b1 can. hmmn. the objective is to get my car back up but with parts i can trust will last, with an engine that i know is sound, that i wont have to rip back apart to install new parts 4 months later. but with no option of swapping on a vtec head, it seems to be very limited to future upgrades.

my car is a joke atm. its a 92 cx, r(paint is peeling), tiny dings here and there on the body, there is rust on the back fenders above the wheelwell, on both sides. the hood is painted black, and from the right angle you can see the un-evenness and the little dents. the weatherstripping needs to be replaced, the pass side windshield runner came off when the brittle brackets snapped, the entenna is broken, about 3" pop out of the fixture, $30 little round driving lights mounted in the air dam that seem to light up everything around me but the road, crappy headlights, missing drivers side window glass($50) ..that happened because there was a problem with the window track. slamming the door in a hailstorm when i couldent roll up the window didnt help. no rear iterior exept for plastic sides, awful cheap seats that are tearing(gonna replace with 89 -91 prelude seats $50) the pinstriping has been obviosly scraped off, its sitting on 14 x 6 black steelies with kuhmo 195/60's. so far ive ran a little sunpro tach to the ecu return, cut the a/c belt(lol like it made a difference) added a strut tower bar(but realised i dont have enough power to throw my car into a turn aggressively to test it) added the 14's, stripped the rear interior, and did a little touch up paint, and added a decent audio system. to top ot all off, its got a big chrome muffler on the stock exaust(no im not intentionally that ghetto) i ended up doing this because i didnt want to spend the money for a new oem muffler, just to pass inspection, and its been on there since. ghetto rigged, with one side on using 4 zip ties!! now thats ghetto. i would like to do away with all of that, and i have a plan and a long list of exactly what i parts i want internal and external tobuild my ideal eg hatch. it would of course be packin a d16z6 or b18b1 boosted. or my desire to put an h22 in a 88-91 crx running 8-10 lbs boost, lowered 2.5-3", 17's, huge wing with invader style body kit plus rear bottom air deflectors, with the rear set up to break lose easy as to reduce understeer so i can powerslide around, but thats later on down the road )

so now i guess im doomed. i guess ill have to save up money for a d16 and keep driving the truck until it all comes together. i was hoping to have found a nice hax for the b8/b7.

thanks to those who were patient enough to read all this, and any critisism / thoughts would b appreciated

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jafro:

when u swapped on the dx head, did u have to do anything special? or was it as simple as replaing the headgasket then bolting her on there?

im basically looking for something that will get me around with a litle more power, until i can manage to get a decent engine. when u did this didnt you end up with a performance almost = stock 91 civic si? without all those mentioned mods?

Jafro

Actually, I found 2 d15b7's in the dirt behind my friend's machine shop, took the best halves of both, hot tanked them all, honed the block, freshened up the head and decked it .018", replaced all the gaskets, new pistons, bearings, seals, water pump, etc... and basically had a brand new d15b7 when I was done. I didn't use any parts of the CX block despite its similarities.

If you were to do the head swap on a CX, you need everything that bolts to the head from the throttle body to the exhaust tip at the back of the car, plus the ECU. The exhaust parts are NOT compatible. Neither are the sensors. The manifolds are all different. The distributor is different. A DX engine wiring harness could make life easier, but you can tap the heated o2 sensor wires through the CX harness if you know how to use a volt meter and read an engine wiring diagram.

The dx motor I built pushed the same hatchback through the 1/4 mile almost 4 seconds faster at around 17 seconds... which is basically what a Celica GT-S does. The CX gearbox was a kick in the pants (to me) only having to shift once in the 1/4 mile, but it would piss off all the roadrace and autocross guys. The 6-speed gearbox in the GT-S is why it sucks so bad at the dragstrip because you're not accelerating when you're shifting.

Seriously, swap a B18B engine and trans out of a 94+ Integra and call it a day. You'll be making less horsepower than a Celica, sure... but as light as a CX hatch is, the LS motor swap has all the power needed to send you careening over a cliff because you didn't upgrade your dinky CX brakes. It should run high-14's which will stomp a GT-S. But even if you swap that sucker there's so much more you'll need to do to a CX chassis before roadracing it safely (whether you're on a track or not). I'm a drag race guy, so that stuff doesn't concern what I built quite as much. You'll need to get opinions from the auto-x crowd on the suspension stuff. From what I understand, a 94+ integra suspension & brakes fit as well. See if you can find a salvaged 'teg for your budget so you can get all the parts at once.