6th GEN suspension FAQ...I hope...
04-26-2004, 06:10 PM
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THE RED 6th GEN Coupe
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6th GEN suspension FAQ...I hope...
(I can't spell, and have bad grammer..enjoy)
0.0 – INTRO: ACCORD Sixth Gen (1998-2002) suspension BASICS
This thread is an attempt to create the great 6th GEN suspension thread. I’m choosing to focus on only the sixth gen because:
A. I have one.
B. It’s becoming one of the most common used Accords on the market at the moment since many early models are now hitting the used market from 1st and 2nd owners cheap.
I’m lucky enough that I have had mine since new in March of 2000. It was great getting the car new. The down side was having to wait for many aftermarket parts to be made because, as of 2000, many companies, including Eibach, had yet to have production camber kits for the 98+ Accord. But, the market is currently very ripe with goodies for the 98-02 Accord and may never again be as plentiful as it is now.
One of the first and cheapest mods you will likely want to tackle first is new springs. It’s usually cheaper then new wheels and tires and can have the most dramatic impact to your ride aside from a wheel-tire combo.
1.0 - SPRINGS
Some of the First 6th GEN springs sets to come to the market were Eibach and H&R both are high quality German spring makers. On the US front Comptech Sports and Neuspeed make some of the best domestic springs for the Accord. Tien has entered the USDM market in recent years with springs as well. Most of these manufacturers can offer springs that drop as little as 0.75” to as much as nearly 3.00”, with the latter usually being a race type spring.
Aspects to consider when getting an aggressive spring or larger drop spring (>2.00”), in most cases you are sacrificing suspension travel. This is usually going to translate into a stiffer or firmer ride quality. Dropping a car as little as 0.75” is going to be fairly mild and should retain much of the stock feel and comfort, assuming the spring rate isn’t to high. Which brings up a good point, spring rate: is how much resistance the spring offers before giving. Higher spring rates are going to offer firmer rides. In many cases this will require a stronger shock, but we will address that later.
OK, now you are worried about spring rates—don’t! Unless you are building a dedicated race machine and ordering your spring’s custom made you don’t have a choice about spring rate. Usually the aftermarket company making your spring won’t tell you about the rate at all, they pick the one their experts have determined best for your car.
Basically you need to figure out how much you want to drop your car first. Then I would suggest you pick a brand. Most springs on the market will drop your car less then 2” have a progress spring rate. In general, the stiffness of the spring increases as the suspension is compressed; this gives a softer ride at first, and stiffer as you corner harder. When the spring drop is greater then 2” manufacturers usually only have a linear rate (constant K factor), don’t worry about the term. In general, the spring keeps the same stiffness no matter what compression points. If you want a softer compliant ride look for a progress rate spring. This is going to become more difficult if you want that slammed look, there just isn’t going to be enough spring travel to offer the various changing rates needed in the slammed spring.
With specifics to the 6th GEN Accord the coupe and sedan, especially in the 4cylinder model the coupe has a larger visual fender gap. So with the same drop on the coupe and the sedan, the drop is going to look more dramatic on the sedan in many cases—assuming all factors like wheel diameter and tires size are the same between the two models. I dropped my ’00 Accord Coupe EX 3-months after owning the car, the dealer didn’t even notice the 1.5” drop of my Eibach Prokits. This is because the height after the drop looked so much like the Accord sedan wheel to fender gap. I had to tell the dealer eventually as my car was in the shop for a recall of a lower suspension point, but I’m getting off topic now.
2.0 - SHOCKS:
Now, unless your Accord is relatively young of age you are likely going to need some shocks to go with your new springs. Reasons being the new aftermarket springs are likely going to be stiffer and firmer making it harder for the older shock to suppress and dampen the spring. The main point of the shock isn’t to make the ride stiffer, the shock is suppose to keep the spring from oscillating or bouncing back and forth. The spring allows your care chassis to bounce or absorb a road bump, the shocks job is to prevent that from going on for very long, else the your car will bounce like mother down the road.
So if you choose to run an aggress stiff spring you are going to need a shock with the ability to over come or handle the force of the more aggressive springs.
My shocks were fairly new (7500 miles young) so I reused my stock Honda shocks with my Eibach prokits springs in June of 2000. This combo worked perfectly fine for several years until I upgraded to Koni’s. However, if the shocks on your car have significant mileage you may want to replace them when you add new springs. This may help to save you the cost of installing new springs this month only to add new shocks next month when your current worn models begin to fail.
As for shock choice, it you are using an aggressive spring you should look for a shock with adjustable damping externally {Koni Yellow (sport) or AGX type shock}. The reason being this type of shock is usually a more aggressive weekend warrior shock. If you have a mild drop with an easier spring rate, like H&R OE sport or Eibach Prokit, and you just want the lowered look with a crisp ride an over the counter non-adjustable or new OE type shock should be adequate.
Are you confused about what spring and shock to buy, don’t worry retailers like the Tirerack.com and Shox.com will gladly help you pick out a great spring shock combo just tell them what you are looking for. Many retailers are even packaging springs and shocks for you to take the work out of it.
3.0 - CAMBER KITS:
Okay it is at this point you may be asking yourself, “Do I need a camber kit for my 6th gen.” The answer is, depends. Do you want to keep the same alignment or camber angle your Accord had when stock—then yes, you need a camber kit. Reason being, the 6th GEN Accord coupe/sedan has no real rear camber adjustment. Dropping the car nearly any amount is going to induce negative rear camber (the bottom of the wheel sticks out further then the top) the alignment shop isn’t going to be able to correct.
The less you drop the 6th GEN Accord the less severe the negative camber will be. If you don’t have a severe drop and don’t care about having a bit of tire wear, then no, you won’t need a camber kit. If you want to lower your car and keep the stock camber angles, you will at minimum need a rear camber kit. Front camber kits are available as well, but I have yet to see a level of drop that needs a front camber kit on the 6th GEN Accord. These front camber kits are likely for users that want to change front camber angles for racing or aggressive driving needs. The front suspension on the Accord has enough camber adjustment to tolerate a drop and keep OEM specs. If your drop is in the 2” area or less a rear camber kit should be plenty for you to keep stock camber angles.
4.0 – WHEELS:
What should you look for in wheels? Offset is the No. 1 critical area to look at. Offset is going to determine how close your wheels are to the brakes and how close they are to the outside of the fender. In stock form the Accord usually runs a +55mm offset. Most 18” aftermarket wheels run a +45mm offset. I wouldn’t recommend choosing a wheel with larger then +42mm offset, this is about as far out as an Accord wheel could set and not rub on the fender during bumps.
5.0 – TIRES:
I’ll touch quickly on Tires, you need to know how the number works.
For example: 225/40/18 is actually; 225mm width, 40 is the aspect ration which means the tires height is 40% of width or (225 x 0.40 =) 90mm tall. And the 18 is the diameter of the intended wheel the as in 18”.
I intend for others to continue this thread, please keep it on topic.
Until then here are some sites to check out:
www.tirerack.com Great info and products for springs, shocks, and tires.
www.shox.com selection of springs and shocks.
www.kingmotorsports.com some more springs and shocks.
If it’s not too much effort I think this should be a sticky……to be continued by others……
0.0 – INTRO: ACCORD Sixth Gen (1998-2002) suspension BASICS
This thread is an attempt to create the great 6th GEN suspension thread. I’m choosing to focus on only the sixth gen because:
A. I have one.
B. It’s becoming one of the most common used Accords on the market at the moment since many early models are now hitting the used market from 1st and 2nd owners cheap.
I’m lucky enough that I have had mine since new in March of 2000. It was great getting the car new. The down side was having to wait for many aftermarket parts to be made because, as of 2000, many companies, including Eibach, had yet to have production camber kits for the 98+ Accord. But, the market is currently very ripe with goodies for the 98-02 Accord and may never again be as plentiful as it is now.
One of the first and cheapest mods you will likely want to tackle first is new springs. It’s usually cheaper then new wheels and tires and can have the most dramatic impact to your ride aside from a wheel-tire combo.
1.0 - SPRINGS
Some of the First 6th GEN springs sets to come to the market were Eibach and H&R both are high quality German spring makers. On the US front Comptech Sports and Neuspeed make some of the best domestic springs for the Accord. Tien has entered the USDM market in recent years with springs as well. Most of these manufacturers can offer springs that drop as little as 0.75” to as much as nearly 3.00”, with the latter usually being a race type spring.
Aspects to consider when getting an aggressive spring or larger drop spring (>2.00”), in most cases you are sacrificing suspension travel. This is usually going to translate into a stiffer or firmer ride quality. Dropping a car as little as 0.75” is going to be fairly mild and should retain much of the stock feel and comfort, assuming the spring rate isn’t to high. Which brings up a good point, spring rate: is how much resistance the spring offers before giving. Higher spring rates are going to offer firmer rides. In many cases this will require a stronger shock, but we will address that later.
OK, now you are worried about spring rates—don’t! Unless you are building a dedicated race machine and ordering your spring’s custom made you don’t have a choice about spring rate. Usually the aftermarket company making your spring won’t tell you about the rate at all, they pick the one their experts have determined best for your car.
Basically you need to figure out how much you want to drop your car first. Then I would suggest you pick a brand. Most springs on the market will drop your car less then 2” have a progress spring rate. In general, the stiffness of the spring increases as the suspension is compressed; this gives a softer ride at first, and stiffer as you corner harder. When the spring drop is greater then 2” manufacturers usually only have a linear rate (constant K factor), don’t worry about the term. In general, the spring keeps the same stiffness no matter what compression points. If you want a softer compliant ride look for a progress rate spring. This is going to become more difficult if you want that slammed look, there just isn’t going to be enough spring travel to offer the various changing rates needed in the slammed spring.
With specifics to the 6th GEN Accord the coupe and sedan, especially in the 4cylinder model the coupe has a larger visual fender gap. So with the same drop on the coupe and the sedan, the drop is going to look more dramatic on the sedan in many cases—assuming all factors like wheel diameter and tires size are the same between the two models. I dropped my ’00 Accord Coupe EX 3-months after owning the car, the dealer didn’t even notice the 1.5” drop of my Eibach Prokits. This is because the height after the drop looked so much like the Accord sedan wheel to fender gap. I had to tell the dealer eventually as my car was in the shop for a recall of a lower suspension point, but I’m getting off topic now.
2.0 - SHOCKS:
Now, unless your Accord is relatively young of age you are likely going to need some shocks to go with your new springs. Reasons being the new aftermarket springs are likely going to be stiffer and firmer making it harder for the older shock to suppress and dampen the spring. The main point of the shock isn’t to make the ride stiffer, the shock is suppose to keep the spring from oscillating or bouncing back and forth. The spring allows your care chassis to bounce or absorb a road bump, the shocks job is to prevent that from going on for very long, else the your car will bounce like mother down the road.
So if you choose to run an aggress stiff spring you are going to need a shock with the ability to over come or handle the force of the more aggressive springs.
My shocks were fairly new (7500 miles young) so I reused my stock Honda shocks with my Eibach prokits springs in June of 2000. This combo worked perfectly fine for several years until I upgraded to Koni’s. However, if the shocks on your car have significant mileage you may want to replace them when you add new springs. This may help to save you the cost of installing new springs this month only to add new shocks next month when your current worn models begin to fail.
As for shock choice, it you are using an aggressive spring you should look for a shock with adjustable damping externally {Koni Yellow (sport) or AGX type shock}. The reason being this type of shock is usually a more aggressive weekend warrior shock. If you have a mild drop with an easier spring rate, like H&R OE sport or Eibach Prokit, and you just want the lowered look with a crisp ride an over the counter non-adjustable or new OE type shock should be adequate.
Are you confused about what spring and shock to buy, don’t worry retailers like the Tirerack.com and Shox.com will gladly help you pick out a great spring shock combo just tell them what you are looking for. Many retailers are even packaging springs and shocks for you to take the work out of it.
3.0 - CAMBER KITS:
Okay it is at this point you may be asking yourself, “Do I need a camber kit for my 6th gen.” The answer is, depends. Do you want to keep the same alignment or camber angle your Accord had when stock—then yes, you need a camber kit. Reason being, the 6th GEN Accord coupe/sedan has no real rear camber adjustment. Dropping the car nearly any amount is going to induce negative rear camber (the bottom of the wheel sticks out further then the top) the alignment shop isn’t going to be able to correct.
The less you drop the 6th GEN Accord the less severe the negative camber will be. If you don’t have a severe drop and don’t care about having a bit of tire wear, then no, you won’t need a camber kit. If you want to lower your car and keep the stock camber angles, you will at minimum need a rear camber kit. Front camber kits are available as well, but I have yet to see a level of drop that needs a front camber kit on the 6th GEN Accord. These front camber kits are likely for users that want to change front camber angles for racing or aggressive driving needs. The front suspension on the Accord has enough camber adjustment to tolerate a drop and keep OEM specs. If your drop is in the 2” area or less a rear camber kit should be plenty for you to keep stock camber angles.
4.0 – WHEELS:
What should you look for in wheels? Offset is the No. 1 critical area to look at. Offset is going to determine how close your wheels are to the brakes and how close they are to the outside of the fender. In stock form the Accord usually runs a +55mm offset. Most 18” aftermarket wheels run a +45mm offset. I wouldn’t recommend choosing a wheel with larger then +42mm offset, this is about as far out as an Accord wheel could set and not rub on the fender during bumps.
5.0 – TIRES:
I’ll touch quickly on Tires, you need to know how the number works.
For example: 225/40/18 is actually; 225mm width, 40 is the aspect ration which means the tires height is 40% of width or (225 x 0.40 =) 90mm tall. And the 18 is the diameter of the intended wheel the as in 18”.
I intend for others to continue this thread, please keep it on topic.
Until then here are some sites to check out:
www.tirerack.com Great info and products for springs, shocks, and tires.
www.shox.com selection of springs and shocks.
www.kingmotorsports.com some more springs and shocks.
If it’s not too much effort I think this should be a sticky……to be continued by others……
04-26-2004, 06:41 PM
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Good job. I hope we don't get a suspension thread for a long time after this. Here are some pointers though.
First reread the first paragraph of shocks. U will notice that u used the term spring instead of shock. Also u might add that shocks are also called struts to eiminate confusion when a noob sees struts at the store.
Some reccomendations would be nice as well. For example I would reccomend a 2.0" or tad greater drop for 18" wheels since that is what it takes to eliminate fender gap and still keep a scrape free ride. The rear camber issue was nicely addressed but u might want to emphasize the need for a rear kit when going into the 2.0" drop. There really is no justification not to get one since the rear is way off and that even makes it grip better while cornering which is bad for understeer.
Under the shock section I would include the effects that adjustable shocks could have on handling. Making the front softer and the back harder will reduce understeer and in some case even oversteer.
If a spring has Race in the name then don't get it unless u are ready for a harsh ride. For low drops and awesome ride I would suggest Eibach sportlines. I couldn't have asked for more in terms of handling/ride quality.
How about strut bar and rear sway. I would reccomend the acura TL-S front upper strut and rear sway since the combo is soo cheap at the dealer and makes for a great handling improvemnt.
First reread the first paragraph of shocks. U will notice that u used the term spring instead of shock. Also u might add that shocks are also called struts to eiminate confusion when a noob sees struts at the store.
Some reccomendations would be nice as well. For example I would reccomend a 2.0" or tad greater drop for 18" wheels since that is what it takes to eliminate fender gap and still keep a scrape free ride. The rear camber issue was nicely addressed but u might want to emphasize the need for a rear kit when going into the 2.0" drop. There really is no justification not to get one since the rear is way off and that even makes it grip better while cornering which is bad for understeer.
Under the shock section I would include the effects that adjustable shocks could have on handling. Making the front softer and the back harder will reduce understeer and in some case even oversteer.
If a spring has Race in the name then don't get it unless u are ready for a harsh ride. For low drops and awesome ride I would suggest Eibach sportlines. I couldn't have asked for more in terms of handling/ride quality.
How about strut bar and rear sway. I would reccomend the acura TL-S front upper strut and rear sway since the combo is soo cheap at the dealer and makes for a great handling improvemnt.
04-26-2004, 07:20 PM
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Also u might add that shocks are also called struts to eiminate confusion when a noob sees struts at the store.
04-26-2004, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by /^Blackmagik^\
shocks and struts are different:doh: struts have a mount for your brake line where as shocks do not.
04-26-2004, 07:37 PM
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Kudos MrChad. I'm very happy that you took the time to write all this information down. It'll be a great asset to the noobs who come to this board. Good work.
04-27-2004, 08:11 AM
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mr chad, do you still have the eibach pro-kits? if you are using them, what rear camber are you using? i noticed that there 2 kinds for many brands, an extreme kit and one that is more subtle, problem is, for the subtle ones, the drop they say are supposed to be for 1 inch or less, and the extreme one, i dont think im dropped that low. pro-kits are right in the middle, 1.5 inch drop. btw, nice write up, very thorough.
04-27-2004, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by polakatl
How about strut bar and rear sway. I would reccomend the acura TL front upper strut and rear sway since the combo is soo cheap at the dealer and makes for a great handling improvemnt.