and the casualties begin to stack up
Thread Starter
un-Touch'd krew
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 51,774
Likes: 1
From: My own level of hell
Yes it does.
Pre-existing conditions can no longer be a reason for refusal of coverage, so the 600lb fat lady with high blood pressure, heart problems and diabetes that drinks mountain dew on the couch all day gets coverage the same as the lady who runs 10 miles a day and eats healthy. Do you really think rates aren't being adjusted across the board to compensate for this?
Businesses already providing coverage are calculating the rate increase and are going to see huge increases in their premiums because of it (100s of millions in some cases) so what do you think is going to happen because of that increase in cost?
A: large scale layoffs. Bloomberg has already been discussing many companies already planning this.
B: companies move out of country. This involves widescale layoffs by default.
C: pass increase to customer. Most likely will happen regardless due to lowered production and sales but same
cost of operations.
It's not a "tea party" as you so eloquently put it, it is common sense and reality of how business is done. Yes our healthcare needs a revamp I am not denying that one bit, but right now is not the time with unemployment ready hovering at 20% do you deal a crippling blow like this to businesses. The timing is wrong and the plan is wrong no matter how you look at it.
Pre-existing conditions can no longer be a reason for refusal of coverage, so the 600lb fat lady with high blood pressure, heart problems and diabetes that drinks mountain dew on the couch all day gets coverage the same as the lady who runs 10 miles a day and eats healthy. Do you really think rates aren't being adjusted across the board to compensate for this?
Businesses already providing coverage are calculating the rate increase and are going to see huge increases in their premiums because of it (100s of millions in some cases) so what do you think is going to happen because of that increase in cost?
A: large scale layoffs. Bloomberg has already been discussing many companies already planning this.
B: companies move out of country. This involves widescale layoffs by default.
C: pass increase to customer. Most likely will happen regardless due to lowered production and sales but same
cost of operations.
It's not a "tea party" as you so eloquently put it, it is common sense and reality of how business is done. Yes our healthcare needs a revamp I am not denying that one bit, but right now is not the time with unemployment ready hovering at 20% do you deal a crippling blow like this to businesses. The timing is wrong and the plan is wrong no matter how you look at it.
Wannabe yuppie
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 25,918
Likes: 0
From: Madison, WI
In my experience with companies making SEC filings like this, it's generally their upper management's way of stating their political beliefs under the guise of "accounting."
Hell, my company's execs have been throwing barbs like this on every earnings call since the campaign for the '08 election started. Somehow our numbers are still outperforming the economy as a whole.
This will be very interesting to see how it plays out though. My company hires people as "contractors" for our clients, but the majority are actually at-will employees of our company that we don't offer full benefits to (they get some company holidays and can do the 401k but no healthcare or PTO).
We generally have anywhere from 800 to 1000 of these people working for us at any given time and the main reason we don't offer them healthcare is because if we did, even if they only worked for us like 3 months we'd have to pay out the ass for up to 2 years every time they stayed in our plan through COBRA.
I can guarantee that since COBRA's not going away, no amount of subsidies towards providing healthcare is going to convince our management to offer health insurance to people on these temporary assignments. It's not my decision but it seems our most likely course will be to take the $2k hit on each contractor and refer them to their state health insurance exchange where they will hopefully be able to buy their own plan. They'll probably also tweak the health plan offered to employees like myself to better take advantage of whatever subsidies we can get out of the deal. And of course our execs will bitch about it on the earnings call when they announce the plan.
US Democrats challenge claims of reforms cost
By Stephanie Kirchgaessner in Washington and Jeremy Lemer in New York
Published: March 26 2010 23:27 | Last updated: March 26 2010 23:27
Democratic lawmakers on Friday challenged assertions by some large US companies that their earnings would be hit by the healthcare reform signed into law this week.
The dispute involves the tax treatment of a subsidy for companies to help them pay for Medicare drug coverage of retirees. Under a law passed in 2003, companies have been able to take a tax deduction when they spend that subsidy. Under the law, the Medicare drug subsidy offered to corporations will continue to be tax-free. But beginning in 2013, companies will have to reduce their tax-deductible drug costs by the amount of the subsidy.
Based on their own calculations, companies including Verizon, John Deere and Caterpillar have claimed that the law would increase expenses and potentially require changes to healthcare benefits.
Henry Waxman, Democratic chairman of the House energy and commerce committee and a strong advocate of healthcare reform, requested that the chief executives of the three companies hand over information about the accounting methods they had used for dealing with the subsidy.
“The new law is designed to expand coverage and bring down costs, so your assertions are a matter of concern,” Mr Waxman said in a letter to the companies. “They also appear to conflict with independent analyses.”
According to David Zion, a Credit Suisse analyst, the change would have the same effect as if the subsidy were taxed. Mr Zion said that of 315 Standard & Poor’s 500 companies that offer post-retirement employee benefit plans, only 132 companies disclosed that they received the subsidies and only two – Boeing and US Steel – revealed how much their retiree obligations were reduced by the subsidy. The 132 companies were expected to receive $972m in subsidies in 2010, reducing their retiree obligations by 7 per cent.
News of the congressional inquiry came as AT&T, the US telecommunications giant, said it would take a $1bn non-cash charge in the first quarter as a result of the law. The company also said it was rethinking benefits for current and retired employees.
Mr Waxman and Bart Stupak, Democratic chairman of the oversight and investigations subcommittee, asked the chief executives of Verizon, John Deere and Caterpillar to provide the committee by April 9 with any analyses related to the projected effect of health reform, and any documents related to the issue.
Hell, my company's execs have been throwing barbs like this on every earnings call since the campaign for the '08 election started. Somehow our numbers are still outperforming the economy as a whole.
This will be very interesting to see how it plays out though. My company hires people as "contractors" for our clients, but the majority are actually at-will employees of our company that we don't offer full benefits to (they get some company holidays and can do the 401k but no healthcare or PTO).
We generally have anywhere from 800 to 1000 of these people working for us at any given time and the main reason we don't offer them healthcare is because if we did, even if they only worked for us like 3 months we'd have to pay out the ass for up to 2 years every time they stayed in our plan through COBRA.
I can guarantee that since COBRA's not going away, no amount of subsidies towards providing healthcare is going to convince our management to offer health insurance to people on these temporary assignments. It's not my decision but it seems our most likely course will be to take the $2k hit on each contractor and refer them to their state health insurance exchange where they will hopefully be able to buy their own plan. They'll probably also tweak the health plan offered to employees like myself to better take advantage of whatever subsidies we can get out of the deal. And of course our execs will bitch about it on the earnings call when they announce the plan.
Originally Posted by Financial Times
US Democrats challenge claims of reforms cost
By Stephanie Kirchgaessner in Washington and Jeremy Lemer in New York
Published: March 26 2010 23:27 | Last updated: March 26 2010 23:27
Democratic lawmakers on Friday challenged assertions by some large US companies that their earnings would be hit by the healthcare reform signed into law this week.
The dispute involves the tax treatment of a subsidy for companies to help them pay for Medicare drug coverage of retirees. Under a law passed in 2003, companies have been able to take a tax deduction when they spend that subsidy. Under the law, the Medicare drug subsidy offered to corporations will continue to be tax-free. But beginning in 2013, companies will have to reduce their tax-deductible drug costs by the amount of the subsidy.
Based on their own calculations, companies including Verizon, John Deere and Caterpillar have claimed that the law would increase expenses and potentially require changes to healthcare benefits.
Henry Waxman, Democratic chairman of the House energy and commerce committee and a strong advocate of healthcare reform, requested that the chief executives of the three companies hand over information about the accounting methods they had used for dealing with the subsidy.
“The new law is designed to expand coverage and bring down costs, so your assertions are a matter of concern,” Mr Waxman said in a letter to the companies. “They also appear to conflict with independent analyses.”
According to David Zion, a Credit Suisse analyst, the change would have the same effect as if the subsidy were taxed. Mr Zion said that of 315 Standard & Poor’s 500 companies that offer post-retirement employee benefit plans, only 132 companies disclosed that they received the subsidies and only two – Boeing and US Steel – revealed how much their retiree obligations were reduced by the subsidy. The 132 companies were expected to receive $972m in subsidies in 2010, reducing their retiree obligations by 7 per cent.
News of the congressional inquiry came as AT&T, the US telecommunications giant, said it would take a $1bn non-cash charge in the first quarter as a result of the law. The company also said it was rethinking benefits for current and retired employees.
Mr Waxman and Bart Stupak, Democratic chairman of the oversight and investigations subcommittee, asked the chief executives of Verizon, John Deere and Caterpillar to provide the committee by April 9 with any analyses related to the projected effect of health reform, and any documents related to the issue.
but i grease from there
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,074
Likes: 0
companies always make threats of layoffs, but it's usually a bluff. ATT made 124 billion dollars last year
and, i dont think its going to make things cheaper, that could only have been accomplished by a public plan, which didn't happen, so it's pointless. disregarding pre existing is a terrible idea, I agree. I'm a health insurance agent, and I'm really glad most of my income isn't from that line of business.
and, i dont think its going to make things cheaper, that could only have been accomplished by a public plan, which didn't happen, so it's pointless. disregarding pre existing is a terrible idea, I agree. I'm a health insurance agent, and I'm really glad most of my income isn't from that line of business.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,925
Likes: 0
From: Sacramelto, home after 10 years in Texas
Revamping is a good idea, if only they had done anything to make costs go down, instead of way up.
You forgot that fat bitch with the mountain dew is also smoking lots of cigarettes.
You forgot that fat bitch with the mountain dew is also smoking lots of cigarettes.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 28,282
Likes: 0
From: michigan
Thread Starter
un-Touch'd krew
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 51,774
Likes: 1
From: My own level of hell
Well by all means don't let me be the one to offend your sensibilities:loco:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...445136066.html
I don't write this shit I just happen to pass it along as I get it.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...445136066.html
I don't write this shit I just happen to pass it along as I get it.
__________________
"I'll keep my money, guns and freedom. You can keep the "Change."
"I'll keep my money, guns and freedom. You can keep the "Change."