shirley

i was gonna use the live fish bait / fishing example

BUT

fish generally arent placed on the same level of pet companionship and family value that dogs are around here ... you cant exactly tell when a fish is in pain, it doesnt make noise ya know

white_n_slow

I think there is a distinction between intellegent, social mammals and fish/bugs/whatever.



I have no problem putting a nightcrawler on my hook, but if it yelped and wimpered I would probably think twice h:

:edit: John, are you playing devil's advocate, or are you really suggesting that fishing and trolling with a hooked live dog are even remotely on the same level?

Nightshade

True but either way you are drowning an animal right?

I don't care either way but the argument deserves to be placed in the arena since we are talking about the drowning of an animal regardless if it is a pet or not. there are many fish in the sea some will say and they aren't pets, but then again on this island with a ferral dog problem I am sure dogs are not looked at as pets either.

So who are we to argue another persons view on an animal just because we don't see it the same way and never will?

A little of both really.

I think less so of the devils advocate and more of where the difference really does lie.

shirley

well not drowning since a fish placed in water ... is well at home

and more pointedly you are technically doing nothing more than using a natural food source for a predator to your advantage.

not saying using dogs as bait is wrong, just not live dogs ....

white_n_slow

There's also the element that these guys are probably doing it to satisfy some sick curiosity. From a shark-bait standpoint, I'm sure a dead animal that has been butchered would make much better bait than a live animal on a line. There isn't any natural food that resembles dog in the shark's ecosystem (I don't think they have seals and the like in that part of the world).

Nightshade

OK if you want to get technical it is suffocation which is just as bad...I mean which would you rather suffer?

But you see the point of what I am getting at regardless of all the terminology...right?

but they are plentiful so why wouldn't you use a plentiful cheap and easy bait?

white_n_slow

I'm not saying they shouldn't use dogs, I'm saying if they want to use dogs they should kill them humanely before using them for bait. And they should probably chop them up for best results. h:

Nightshade

agreed...but you know if they did that then there would be some bunny hugger arguing that killing a dog for bait is inhumane and this argument would continue.

NOPD

you want to catch a big fish you use a live bait

Fire

I dont know about sharks but the consensus (at least what Ive read and I look into the animal rights community and their opponents often) is that most fish dont even have the grey matter to even feel pain....Dogs certainly do. Whatever ones view is of a dog the fact is that other than dolphins and certain sea mammals you cant compare them to most sea life when it comes to having a personality and/or traits that make a dog what it is....one that can feel things emotionally (call that bullshit but Ive had over 20 dogs and have been a part of, or have independently placed mucho rescue dogs into homes over the years-and they are emotional creatures). That, to me, puts that particular animal into a different class that deserves to be treated with a certain amount of fairness and dignity in life or death.

Yes the argument can be made that killing is killing but then that applies to humans too. Life is life and all of it should be treated with respect but I doubt that a fish feels anything remotely close to fear when caught. The instinct to get away? Yes. Fear and emotional turmoil? Fuck no. That makes the difference to me.