When will Honda offer a "clutchless" auto tranny in the Civic?
h:
lots and lots of fail
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 23,004
Likes: 1
From: Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeetroit
Why so negative? I base my assessment of the DSG both on personal experience and after reading its praises in virtually every auto enthusiast magazine that tested it. Have you driven a DSG-equipped GTI? I don't know of anyone who hasn't been impressed after trying it out.
While I'll admit that a manual tranny is more involving and better under certain racing conditions (such as autocross, where you have to hold it in gear while negotiating a tight course), it's a Godsend for those of us who either:
(1) Have a significant other who will share the car and who can't drive manual very well, or (2) Must deal with stop-and-go traffic on a regular basis and like the option of switching to auto-shift.
Anyway, it's nice to have choices.
For me, the single biggest advantage of the DSG (and other "manumatics" in use by BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, et al) is the fact that, from what I've read, they don't HAVE power-robbing torque converters. If I were so lucky to be ordering a new 599 GTB I'd probably opt for the manual but in some cars that have to serve more than just one function, a manumatic is a very practical choice.
I'm sure Honda is working on one and I expect it to be in most of their models within a few years. Their marketing research department is probably noticing the large percentage of GTIs, Bimmers, etc. being sold with DSGs/manumatics and they'll want a piece of the action.
While I'll admit that a manual tranny is more involving and better under certain racing conditions (such as autocross, where you have to hold it in gear while negotiating a tight course), it's a Godsend for those of us who either:
(1) Have a significant other who will share the car and who can't drive manual very well, or (2) Must deal with stop-and-go traffic on a regular basis and like the option of switching to auto-shift.
Anyway, it's nice to have choices.
For me, the single biggest advantage of the DSG (and other "manumatics" in use by BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, et al) is the fact that, from what I've read, they don't HAVE power-robbing torque converters. If I were so lucky to be ordering a new 599 GTB I'd probably opt for the manual but in some cars that have to serve more than just one function, a manumatic is a very practical choice.
I'm sure Honda is working on one and I expect it to be in most of their models within a few years. Their marketing research department is probably noticing the large percentage of GTIs, Bimmers, etc. being sold with DSGs/manumatics and they'll want a piece of the action.
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: USA
When I was in Taiwan last year I got to drive my brother-in-law's Citroen C2 which was equipped with one of those electronically controlled manual gearboxes. It's a manual without a clutch and with pedal shifters.
I have to say, it was a ton of fun on those mountain roads. Using the system makes it immediately obvious why these kinds of transmissions are used in racing. It was cool to approach a turn, brake, pull the lever and the car automatically rev-match and downshift. When it worked well it was awesome.
The problem is that it didn't always work well. It didn't even work well most of the time. And based on what I've read about these kinds of gearboxes they all have similar problems.
One big annoyance was at very low speeds, trying to ease the car out of a parking spot, for example. The electronic clutch never slipped properly. Usually it would slip far too much. I'd have to get on the gas a bit for it to start moving, which would result in the clutch letting out completely and causing the car to lunge.
Shifting was usually fairly quick when I accelerated harder, but when driving normally it was a bit of a mess. Shifts were often unacceptably slow. But usually the problem was that I'd pull the lever... wait... wait... wait... then the car would finally decide to shift.
Then there's downshifting. It had some of the same issues of upshifting with the added problem that it didn't always properly rev-match. It went either way, too low or too high for the desired gear.
I tried a few techniques to try to alleviate these problems but I couldn't find anything that worked consistently.
We're looking at the very early stages of this technology, so I expect there to be problems. I think the biggest problem automakers are having is trying to develop a system that can handle normal driving because I don't think they're having problems in racing where all they need to do is bang off quick, hard shifts, comfort be damned.
Personally, I wouldn't get a car with one of these transmissions. Not for another 10 years or longer, until I start seeing that the technology has matured. In addition to these problems I have concerns about reliability.
Despite the problems, I think this is the future of the manual transmission, but they're going to require a TON of additional development and refinement. I still like a nice, simple manual transmission but these things are cool.
I have to say, it was a ton of fun on those mountain roads. Using the system makes it immediately obvious why these kinds of transmissions are used in racing. It was cool to approach a turn, brake, pull the lever and the car automatically rev-match and downshift. When it worked well it was awesome.
The problem is that it didn't always work well. It didn't even work well most of the time. And based on what I've read about these kinds of gearboxes they all have similar problems.
One big annoyance was at very low speeds, trying to ease the car out of a parking spot, for example. The electronic clutch never slipped properly. Usually it would slip far too much. I'd have to get on the gas a bit for it to start moving, which would result in the clutch letting out completely and causing the car to lunge.
Shifting was usually fairly quick when I accelerated harder, but when driving normally it was a bit of a mess. Shifts were often unacceptably slow. But usually the problem was that I'd pull the lever... wait... wait... wait... then the car would finally decide to shift.
Then there's downshifting. It had some of the same issues of upshifting with the added problem that it didn't always properly rev-match. It went either way, too low or too high for the desired gear.
I tried a few techniques to try to alleviate these problems but I couldn't find anything that worked consistently.
We're looking at the very early stages of this technology, so I expect there to be problems. I think the biggest problem automakers are having is trying to develop a system that can handle normal driving because I don't think they're having problems in racing where all they need to do is bang off quick, hard shifts, comfort be damned.
Personally, I wouldn't get a car with one of these transmissions. Not for another 10 years or longer, until I start seeing that the technology has matured. In addition to these problems I have concerns about reliability.
Despite the problems, I think this is the future of the manual transmission, but they're going to require a TON of additional development and refinement. I still like a nice, simple manual transmission but these things are cool.
