Wow... the press actually did their job
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Mesa, AZ
but she was given a waiver to reveal her source and she still won't give it up, what is that? its a criminal matter and she is not allowed to protect her source when it comes to national security. I hope she enjoys her jail time.
I can see neither of us will agree with each others view so I'll just post this up and stop. I'll understand if you don't read the article below because you proably have the same feelings aginst the Journal as I do to the Times, but here you go anyway.
I can see neither of us will agree with each others view so I'll just post this up and stop. I'll understand if you don't read the article below because you proably have the same feelings aginst the Journal as I do to the Times, but here you go anyway.
Wednesday, July 13, 2005
In Case You Missed It: Karl Rove, Whistleblower
From The Wall Street Journal
Review & Outlook
July 13, 2005
Democrats and most of the Beltway press corps are baying for Karl Rove's head over his role in exposing a case of CIA nepotism involving Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame. On the contrary, we'd say the White House political guru deserves a prize--perhaps the next iteration of the "Truth-Telling" award that The Nation magazine bestowed upon Mr. Wilson before the Senate Intelligence Committee exposed him as a fraud.
For Mr. Rove is turning out to be the real "whistleblower" in this whole sorry pseudo-scandal. He's the one who warned Time's Matthew Cooper and other reporters to be wary of Mr. Wilson's credibility. He's the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves. In short, Mr. Rove provided important background so Americans could understand that Mr. Wilson wasn't a whistleblower but was a partisan trying to discredit the Iraq War in an election campaign. Thank you, Mr. Rove.
Media chants aside, there's no evidence that Mr. Rove broke any laws in telling reporters that Ms. Plame may have played a role in her husband's selection for a 2002 mission to investigate reports that Iraq was seeking uranium ore in Niger. ... But it appears Mr. Rove didn't even know Ms. Plame's name and had only heard about her work at Langley from other journalists.
On the "no underlying crime" point, moreover, no less than the New York Times and Washington Post now agree. So do the 36 major news organizations that filed a legal brief in March aimed at keeping Mr. Cooper and the New York Times's Judith Miller out of jail. ...
In short, Joe Wilson hadn't told the truth about what he'd discovered in Africa, how he'd discovered it, what he'd told the CIA about it, or even why he was sent on the mission. The media and the Kerry campaign promptly abandoned him, though the former never did give as much prominence to his debunking as they did to his original accusations. But if anyone can remember another public figure so entirely and thoroughly discredited, let us know.
If there's any scandal at all here, it is that this entire episode has been allowed to waste so much government time and media attention, not to mention inspire a "special counsel" probe.
In Case You Missed It: Karl Rove, Whistleblower
From The Wall Street Journal
Review & Outlook
July 13, 2005
Democrats and most of the Beltway press corps are baying for Karl Rove's head over his role in exposing a case of CIA nepotism involving Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame. On the contrary, we'd say the White House political guru deserves a prize--perhaps the next iteration of the "Truth-Telling" award that The Nation magazine bestowed upon Mr. Wilson before the Senate Intelligence Committee exposed him as a fraud.
For Mr. Rove is turning out to be the real "whistleblower" in this whole sorry pseudo-scandal. He's the one who warned Time's Matthew Cooper and other reporters to be wary of Mr. Wilson's credibility. He's the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves. In short, Mr. Rove provided important background so Americans could understand that Mr. Wilson wasn't a whistleblower but was a partisan trying to discredit the Iraq War in an election campaign. Thank you, Mr. Rove.
Media chants aside, there's no evidence that Mr. Rove broke any laws in telling reporters that Ms. Plame may have played a role in her husband's selection for a 2002 mission to investigate reports that Iraq was seeking uranium ore in Niger. ... But it appears Mr. Rove didn't even know Ms. Plame's name and had only heard about her work at Langley from other journalists.
On the "no underlying crime" point, moreover, no less than the New York Times and Washington Post now agree. So do the 36 major news organizations that filed a legal brief in March aimed at keeping Mr. Cooper and the New York Times's Judith Miller out of jail. ...
In short, Joe Wilson hadn't told the truth about what he'd discovered in Africa, how he'd discovered it, what he'd told the CIA about it, or even why he was sent on the mission. The media and the Kerry campaign promptly abandoned him, though the former never did give as much prominence to his debunking as they did to his original accusations. But if anyone can remember another public figure so entirely and thoroughly discredited, let us know.
If there's any scandal at all here, it is that this entire episode has been allowed to waste so much government time and media attention, not to mention inspire a "special counsel" probe.
Stuff and things.
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: New York
Originally Posted by skabone69
but she was given a waiver to reveal her source and she still won't give it up, what is that? its a criminal matter and she is not allowed to protect her source when it comes to national security. I hope she enjoys her jail time.
I can see neither of us will agree with each others view so I'll just post this up and stop. I'll understand if you don't read the article below because you proably have the same feelings aginst the Journal as I do to the Times, but here you go anyway.
I can see neither of us will agree with each others view so I'll just post this up and stop. I'll understand if you don't read the article below because you proably have the same feelings aginst the Journal as I do to the Times, but here you go anyway.
Stuff and things.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 0
From: New York
Originally Posted by skabone69
but she was given a waiver to reveal her source and she still won't give it up, what is that? its a criminal matter and she is not allowed to protect her source when it comes to national security. I hope she enjoys her jail time.
I can see neither of us will agree with each others view so I'll just post this up and stop. I'll understand if you don't read the article below because you proably have the same feelings aginst the Journal as I do to the Times, but here you go anyway.
I can see neither of us will agree with each others view so I'll just post this up and stop. I'll understand if you don't read the article below because you proably have the same feelings aginst the Journal as I do to the Times, but here you go anyway.
Judith Miller goes to jail because she won't talk about her private conversations, but Bob Novak gets to keep his TV show and freedom after he published the name and assignment of an undercover CIA operative.
skabone - do you think Novak belongs in Jail? This is a "yes" or "no" question.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,181
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From: CA
politicians refusing to answer questions is old news. while i think mcclellen could reasonably respond to some of the questions, i also think the journalists were badgering the point in excess. couldn't they have figured out that after asking the same question for the twentieth time, and getting the same response, that he wasn't going to answer?
what i think is interesting, is that the time reporter Cooper, was prepared to goto jail as well for not revealing his source. but at the last minute, Rove (now identified as the source, or one of the sources) gave him permission to talk. so what happened with the other reporter? was she not given the same permission, or was it a different source altogether? why did they let one go to jail and not the other?
rove could end up losing his job, or even going to jail over this, and this is some pretty terrible publicity for the bush administration. he had to have realized the consequences, while he could have simply sat around quietly and let these two journalists go to prison. why would he throw himself in front of the bus like that?
Originally Posted by Epoch
Actually, it's quite transparent. A journalist's job depends on their ability to protect their sources, and they will go to the ends of the earth to protect their confidential sources. If a journalist can't protect their sources, they will never get the scoops that make the big stories. She's protecting her job and her livelyhood.
It will be interesting to see where this all goes, especially to see if they'll hold true to their promise of firing whoever's responsible.
It will be interesting to see where this all goes, especially to see if they'll hold true to their promise of firing whoever's responsible.
rove could end up losing his job, or even going to jail over this, and this is some pretty terrible publicity for the bush administration. he had to have realized the consequences, while he could have simply sat around quietly and let these two journalists go to prison. why would he throw himself in front of the bus like that?
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,320
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From: Mesa, AZ
Originally Posted by benjamin
Judith Miller never actually published a story about this. Do you understand what that means? She's in jail because she's refusing to tell the court who she had a conversation with. How is that not private information? Do journalists no longer have a right to privacy?
Originally Posted by benjamin
Futhermore, Robert Novak publicly revealed Valerie Plame's identity, and that assbag is still on television.
Judith Miller goes to jail because she won't talk about her private conversations, but Bob Novak gets to keep his TV show and freedom after he published the name and assignment of an undercover CIA operative.
skabone - do you think Novak belongs in Jail? This is a "yes" or "no" question.
Judith Miller goes to jail because she won't talk about her private conversations, but Bob Novak gets to keep his TV show and freedom after he published the name and assignment of an undercover CIA operative.
skabone - do you think Novak belongs in Jail? This is a "yes" or "no" question.
Thread Starter
CHRISTMASTIME IN IRAQ
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,413
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From: Bay Area
Originally Posted by mayonaise
i believe it is a felony to knowingly reveal the identity of an undercover operative.
After a CIA agent was killed in the 70's because someone revealed their identity, it became a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and/or 50K in fines
Thread Starter
CHRISTMASTIME IN IRAQ
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,413
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From: Bay Area
Originally Posted by bluetwo
Amazing.... our worst enemy is... ourselves.
Actually, the short of it is "yes". I would say it's more our society's lack of rational forethought into the consequences of your actions and then never owning up to them, but yeah, we tend to be our own worst enemy.
Only one other society recited a pledge while holding a hand over their heart... let's just hope history doesn't repeat :happysad: