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if 2 atoms fulfill the same quantum number...

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Old Nov 9, 2004 | 06:34 PM
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Default if 2 atoms fulfill the same quantum number...

Ca vs. Sc

4s^2 vs. 4s^2 3d^1

20 electrons vs. 21 electrons

20 protons vs. 21 protons

Which would be bigger in size?
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Old Nov 9, 2004 | 06:37 PM
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quantum leap was a good show, if that guy knew wtf youre talking about he probably could have gone home sooner.
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Old Nov 9, 2004 | 06:42 PM
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Sc - has another energy level
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Old Nov 9, 2004 | 06:42 PM
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Depends on their position on the table fool...

atoms decrease in size left to right and down to up.
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Old Nov 9, 2004 | 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LT69Padawan6
Sc - has another energy level
:ts:

Correct, he is.
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Old Nov 9, 2004 | 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LT69Padawan6
Sc - has another energy level
but if it were Sc (1+), Ca would be larger?

Also this really doesn't apply to the assignment since most of them are ions...but...if size decreases in a period as you go across from left to right, wouldn't this prove that wrong? (in the case of the non-charged in the previous question) I'm confused
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Old Nov 9, 2004 | 06:57 PM
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What is also more confusing to this is that even though Sc does have one electron in the 3d subshell, it has one more proton. More protons=more internal pull on the electrons which would decrease the size. So I don't know if having more electrons would necessarily make it larger overall. I don't know though
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Old Nov 9, 2004 | 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by redgoober4life
but if it were Sc (1+), Ca would be larger?
Correct. The outer electron is lost, and there are now 21 protons to attract 20 electrons, so it pulls them in closer.
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Old Nov 9, 2004 | 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by redgoober4life
What is also more confusing to this is that even though Sc does have one electron in the 3d subshell, it has one more proton. More protons=more internal pull on the electrons which would decrease the size. So I don't know if having more electrons would necessarily make it larger overall. I don't know though
If the 3s level is full, the electrons tend to "shield" the protons from the electrons in the next higher energy level shell, so the protons have less pull on the electrons in the 3d level.
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Old Nov 9, 2004 | 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Kestrel
Correct. The outer electron is lost, and there are now 21 protons to attract 20 electrons, so it pulls them in closer.
But I'm having difficulty with Ca < Sc in the non-ion. Even though Sc has more elections and occupies another subshell, the atomic radius anywhere I can find looks to be smaller. Is this because it has another proton, and therefor, more pull?
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