If it was our goal to establish a democratic society, why are we rejecting all of their plans for self rule?


No, if a Democrat was doing the same thing, I'd be fighting to get him out of office too. Simple as that.

If we wanna go back to the ORIGINAL start of the problem, maybe Regan's administration should never have had put him in power and GIVEN him the WMDs that we attempted to recover.

Regardless of any argument, I do not defy the concept that the people or Iraq will eventually be better off without Saddam, BUT I still do not agree with the actions that this administration has taken, and I feel many of Bush's combative decisions had more to do with personal gain over the best interest of the American people.

***edit: nothing to run on in 2004? ALL of Bush's economic, environmental, medical, and social initiatives only benefit the people who will pay for his reelection, and the negative consequences are felt by everyone else.

 

If we were to turn power over immediatly or let them put whomever they wanted in power right off the bat, we would risk starting another Iran. A "fake" democracy with an extremist islamic radical at the helm, running it into the ground. Not to mention, the inability to protect themselves at the current moment would result in even further decline of the country.

What we need to do is continue to have them work on the constitution (which they made, they signed, and they agree'd to), continue to get the "good" educated people into the politics of the nation, and then in June when we said we would - turn it over to them. We'll help with security and all that kind of logistical stuff, rebuilding, money, security, etc; but the laws that will be enforced will be the laws that they chose in the constitution that THEY created.

You can't just kick out a leader and say "there you guys go, now have fun". They have no idea how to run a Democracy, no idea what kind of laws will do what, what kind of policies will hamper or improve their society, etc. We have to educate them in that, get them to start talking and having dialog rather than hating one another, and *THEN* we can turn it over to them (which we will do in June)

 

I'll take it you haven't looked at the structure of government we wanted them to adhere indefinately to?

 

Prove it. Oh wait, you can't. And that is exactly my objection.

The point however, as I made in big huge text before even posting the article, was not to debate the same old crap about the war and to have a bunch of posturing from either side. Each position has been very clearly outlined in the past and it does absolutely nothing to further the discussion of what this guy Clarke has to say.

But I said this before, so apparently neither of you can read.

 

Here we go, just for for the reading impaired.

 

Just to let you know, Hussein rose to power in mid-'79, while Reagan wasn't president until 1981.

Condoleeza Rice spoke out against Clarke's book.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...rke/index.html

 

the national deficit is at an all time high of $7 trillion. can somebody look into that.

 

I read that. He didn't have a partisan statement. he just commented on how you were wrong. i guess there was no reason for this thread if you wanted no opposition. You should have made this a sticky and locked it

 

This is not a partisan statement?

"What the left-wing wants us to do, is give up our soverignty in being able to decide what's good for our country or not; and rest it with the U.N."

Antarius is perfectly capable of speaking for himself. You don't need to step up to the plate with yet more of the same stuff that's been said over and over again in defense of your views just because you two are in the same club.

I have no problem if you disagree with what this guy Clarke has to say. If you do, then say so and say why. Is that a hard enough task? When you watch the news and they have one of those point-counterpoint thingies with a person from each side of an issue, if either one starts to go back to the standard crap that everyone from each side always says, the anchor cuts them off.

My reaffirmation of what I said in the beginning goes just as much for Epoch as it does for you, Vampgrrrl and Antarius. Doesn't matter what side you are on the Iraq war. Talk about Clarke, or shut up.

 

I have not had any economic, health or social consequences happen to me and I am not in the upper class. You have been brainwashed by the media to think that things are so horrible. The economy is on the rise from Clinton's ****ups and the country is heading in the right direction. I'd rather have money in my pocket then paying for everyone's heathcare. I pay for my own healthcare. Why should I pay it for someone else who sits at home and doesn't even look for a job. We do not live in a communist country. Don't elet a president who wants to make it one h: