VTEC controllers?
Okay so I got a 98' type SH lude that runs pretty well. A few of my friends have suggested to me that I get a VTEC controller. First of all what EXACTLY do they do and do they really make much of a difference in performance?
thx
thx
normal vtec controller's like a vafc or fields are piggy back devices.
why piggy back's suck:
as you can see, piggy backs are less than desirable. to fully tune your engine you need a rom editor program like hondata or neptune. or a full standalone that replaces your stock ecu like an aem ems. you only need to make adjustments to vtec, fuel, and ignition when you have significant mods that are letting more air in and out. bolt on's do not qualify.
read this for lots more info: http://www.phearable.net/tech/efibeginnerguide.html
why piggy back's suck:
Piggy Back controllers allow stock ECUs to do things that they normally can't do, like run larger injectors or deal with boost. Remember that piggyback controllers work by altering sensor signals before they get to the ECU.
Most of the time, the primary signal being messed with is the Map Sensor. This is critically important in a Speed Density car. The Map Sensor is used by the ECU to guess how much air is going into the car, and therefore how much fuel to supply in order to match airflow. When you "lean" out a car with an AFC, you are simply decreasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the decrease in manifold pressure by supplying less fuel. When you "richen" a car with an AFC, you are simply increasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the increase in manifold pressure by supplying more fuel.
The change in fueling happens for a reason: if you look at a fuel table, Map Sensor values correspond with columns. When you increase or decrease the signal from the Map Sensor, you are simply making the ECU use a different column than it originally would have used. (see Understanding Maps if you need some help understanding reading Fuel and Ign tables)
But wait, isn't the Map Sensor used for determining ignition requirements too? When you "lean" out a car with a Piggy Back, you also in all likelyhood advanced timing. When you "richen" a car with a Piggy Back, you also in all likelyhood retarded timing. Look at trends horizontally (as MAP changes) in an ignition table, and you will see why this happens. This helps explain why so many boosted cars running on the "AFC hack" have issues due to excessive ignition advance.
The bottom line: Piggy Back Controllers suck because you cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition. Any changes to fueling will produce a change in ignition too, and often this is undesirable.
Most of the time, the primary signal being messed with is the Map Sensor. This is critically important in a Speed Density car. The Map Sensor is used by the ECU to guess how much air is going into the car, and therefore how much fuel to supply in order to match airflow. When you "lean" out a car with an AFC, you are simply decreasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the decrease in manifold pressure by supplying less fuel. When you "richen" a car with an AFC, you are simply increasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the increase in manifold pressure by supplying more fuel.
The change in fueling happens for a reason: if you look at a fuel table, Map Sensor values correspond with columns. When you increase or decrease the signal from the Map Sensor, you are simply making the ECU use a different column than it originally would have used. (see Understanding Maps if you need some help understanding reading Fuel and Ign tables)
But wait, isn't the Map Sensor used for determining ignition requirements too? When you "lean" out a car with a Piggy Back, you also in all likelyhood advanced timing. When you "richen" a car with a Piggy Back, you also in all likelyhood retarded timing. Look at trends horizontally (as MAP changes) in an ignition table, and you will see why this happens. This helps explain why so many boosted cars running on the "AFC hack" have issues due to excessive ignition advance.
The bottom line: Piggy Back Controllers suck because you cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition. Any changes to fueling will produce a change in ignition too, and often this is undesirable.
read this for lots more info: http://www.phearable.net/tech/efibeginnerguide.html
your friends are horribly mistaken. vtec points are set optimal from the factory and need not be changed unless there was considerable modification done to the engine.
and at that point a full tune would be in order. so VAFC and VTEC controllers are all pretty much a waste of money.
and at that point a full tune would be in order. so VAFC and VTEC controllers are all pretty much a waste of money.
sweet thanks snoopy. im kinda a rookie with this stuff so, would you guys reccomend putting in a new ecu chip i guess? Just for referance, i have a cool air intake, dc headers/downpipe, greddyEVO2 exhaust and just put a new trans in. basicly im lookin for more stuff to do to the car without supercharging/turbo'n it. any ideas would be great... other thing i was wondering about was weather to leave the stock cat i have in or if i was losing power from having a stock cat between the aftermarket headers/downpipe/exhaust
yeah i wasnt thinking i needed one, because my VTEC is running like a champ, but to be honest i dont know WTF im talking about when it comes to my engine and stuff. most of the time im talking out of my ass >.< so thats why i asked ha ha
okay cool thanks for all the help snoopy its greatly appreciated. any other performance upgrades i could look at right now, before i start looking into turbo's and superchargers, at which point i would assume i would need to start messing with the ecu and such?
yep.


