So Obama was in town last night v. manwithgunarrested
un-Touch'd krew
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 51,774
Likes: 1
From: My own level of hell
you serious? you are an idiot if you did not know guns were made for killing, injuring or intimidating. if you think the gun was invented to look as a fancy decoration for countrymen and not to be used as a method of war you are mistaken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun
gunpowder was invented for warfare by the chinese.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_warfare
as for killing open up your mind for a second. doesnt ALWAYS mean people. also means for food. stop thinking so 1 sided dude.
those words i will not disagree with spanky because you are spot on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun
gunpowder was invented for warfare by the chinese.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_warfare
as for killing open up your mind for a second. doesnt ALWAYS mean people. also means for food. stop thinking so 1 sided dude.
those words i will not disagree with spanky because you are spot on.
so not all killing is a bad thing...right?
in that case it is a tool that can and is beneficial right?
I never said it wasn't it's intended purpose I was just making you jump hoops and you did :chuckles:
__________________
"I'll keep my money, guns and freedom. You can keep the "Change."
"I'll keep my money, guns and freedom. You can keep the "Change."
Thread Starter
Shake n Bake!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,794
Likes: 1
From: Pittsburgh, PA
I'm still waiting for any further developments on this, and when I see something I'll definitely post it up because I definitely feel that Mr. Noble should take this case to the courts - if not for personal gain, then to at least establish that he was well within his rights as an American citizen.
Here's a letter to the editor:
Holstered handgun is perfectly legal
Published: Friday, September 5, 2008 7:30 AM EDT
A sidebar story to the coverage of Barack Obama’s visit to Beaver (“Man with gun to face charges” Saturday) revealed the utter ignorance of some of our supposed law enforcers about the law.
Deputy sheriffs arrested John Noble of Industry for carrying a holstered handgun in Beaver on the evening of the Obama rally. Even more appalling, state police detained Noble and questioned him at length when he was taken to their barracks.
Are none of these officers aware that it is completely legal and constitutionally protected to carry a firearm in plain sight?
In instances like this, there is usually some reference to whether or not the alleged offender “had a permit to carry” the gun.
Let’s be very clear: In Pennsylvania, this refers to the permit to carry a concealed weapon. This permit is completely irrelevant (and unnecessary) in the case of Noble. We all have the right to carry firearms in plain sight, even if a presidential candidate happens to be in town.
It’s time for our law enforcers to learn what the law is. If I were Noble, I’d be seriously contemplating a civil suit against the fools who violated his rights.
Joe Bell
Center Township
As the writer stated, carrying an unloaded, holstered weapon is completely legal in PA - and we don't need a permit for that.
Anyone recall Obama stating that Pennsylvanians will cling to their guns and their religion? ...got at least one of those right
Here's a letter to the editor:
Holstered handgun is perfectly legal
Published: Friday, September 5, 2008 7:30 AM EDT
A sidebar story to the coverage of Barack Obama’s visit to Beaver (“Man with gun to face charges” Saturday) revealed the utter ignorance of some of our supposed law enforcers about the law.
Deputy sheriffs arrested John Noble of Industry for carrying a holstered handgun in Beaver on the evening of the Obama rally. Even more appalling, state police detained Noble and questioned him at length when he was taken to their barracks.
Are none of these officers aware that it is completely legal and constitutionally protected to carry a firearm in plain sight?
In instances like this, there is usually some reference to whether or not the alleged offender “had a permit to carry” the gun.
Let’s be very clear: In Pennsylvania, this refers to the permit to carry a concealed weapon. This permit is completely irrelevant (and unnecessary) in the case of Noble. We all have the right to carry firearms in plain sight, even if a presidential candidate happens to be in town.
It’s time for our law enforcers to learn what the law is. If I were Noble, I’d be seriously contemplating a civil suit against the fools who violated his rights.
Joe Bell
Center Township
Anyone recall Obama stating that Pennsylvanians will cling to their guns and their religion? ...got at least one of those right
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 14,544
Likes: 0
From: Holyoke, MA
killing bad? i never said it was bad. if it werent for the killing of many innocent and non innocent lives, the USA wouldn't be the bad asses we are today.
they didnt charge him right. the police can hold you up to 48 hours without placing charges on you. there is a presidential rally and a man in the area with a gun. of course the police are going to jump on him. its common sense. they were perfectly in their rights. they had no idea what the man was going to attempt.
Last edited by ShaolinLueb; Sep 5, 2008 at 08:49 AM.
h:
Thread Starter
Shake n Bake!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,794
Likes: 1
From: Pittsburgh, PA
oh looky :closeup:
http://www.timesonline.com/articles/...c948109432.txt
Arrest at Obama rally sparks gun rights debate
By Bill Vidonic, Times Staff
Published: Saturday, September 6, 2008 11:52 PM EDT
John Noble said he’s openly worn a handgun while attending the annual Maple Syrup Festival in Bradys Run Park.
He’s worn it to a Bridgewater book signing.
The Industry man said he’s never been confronted by police over his habit of wearing a holstered pistol on his waist — that is until Aug. 29.
Noble’s arrest at the Barack Obama campaign rally at Beaver’s Irvine Park has raised questions about gun rights.
“There was no disturbance until (law enforcement) made one,” Noble said.
Beaver County District Attorney Anthony Berosh said the issue isn’t whether Noble was legally carrying a gun. State police said Noble did not violate the state’s open carry law, under which you don’t need a permit to carry a weapon in plain sight.
Instead, Berosh said, it’s a battle between two constitutional rights: The right to bear arms and the right to assemble peaceably and without fear.
“No constitutional right pre-empts the other,” Berosh said.
Berosh said Noble did not have the right to alarm anyone around him attending the Barack Obama rally in Irvine Park.
While Noble’s intentions might not have been sinister, Berosh said, “The people who don’t know him don’t know that.”
Noble’s arrest at the Obama rally has set off controversy. Gun right advocates say Noble’s rights were stepped on, while others say Noble should have known better than to take a gun to a presidential campaign rally.
Noble said he had no ill intent and that Obama’s constitutional rights didn’t take precedence over his.
THE INCIDENT
Noble was standing in McIntosh Park, next to Irvine Park, when people noticed that he was packing a gun in a holster and notified sheriff’s deputies.
After a brief confrontation Noble was taken into custody, and his gun, a Glock 9mm, was confiscated. He was questioned by state police and released.
Deputies and state police have said Noble did not threaten anyone with the gun, and it remained in his holster until it was confiscated. The gun hasn’t been returned yet.
THE FALLOUT
On Friday, state police charged Noble with one count each of disorderly conduct and disrupting meetings and processions.
State police wrote in a criminal complaint that they think Noble intended to disrupt the rally, because he posted a message on a Web site just before the rally telling people to “bring their guns and Bibles.”
State police said Noble put others around him in fear for their safety and that law enforcement agents had to abandon their posts at the Obama rally to deal with Noble.
State police did say that Noble did not illegally possess his weapon.
Federal authorities said they would not file charges against Noble because he did not enter Irvine Park. To do so, he would have had to pass through a metal detector.
THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
Beaver County Sheriff George David said a person who is wearing a gun in a holster, out in the open, doesn’t need a license to carry that weapon.
However, a person who wants to keep a weapon concealed on his body or carry it in a vehicle must obtain a license. Extra permission is necessary for a concealed weapon, David said, because a concealed weapon poses a greater danger to police.
A weapon is considered concealed if it’s worn under clothing or kept in a vehicle.
While David said he’s a gun advocate, he said Noble should not have taken the gun to the rally because of all the security present for Obama’s protection.
“I don’t think this was the time or the place to show your rights,” David said.
Noble’s case is not unique, however.
According to published reports, a Louisiana man last month received a monetary settlement for his January 2006 arrest at a Baton Rouge shopping mall.
In the incident, a police officer approached Mark Marchiafava, 55, of Baton Rouge, and asked why he was openly wearing a holstered weapon in a mall. Marchiafava replied that because he wasn’t a felon, he could legally carry a weapon in the open.
The officer took Marchiafava into custody and charged him with a count of illegal gun possession.
The charge was later dropped, and Marchiafava’s weapon was returned, but he sued the police department, claiming a violation of his civil rights. The terms of the settlement with the department have been sealed.
Noble’s case has already been heavily discussed on Web sites dedicated to gun rights.
Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of OpenCarry.org, said Friday, “John Noble was arrested for engaging in peaceful, constitutionally protected conduct in a park open to the public, i.e., passing out fliers while carrying a handgun in a secure holster. Noble was not intoxicated, fighting, cursing, or making loud noises.”
He also said, “Pennsylvania courts have repeatedly said that ‘the offense of disorderly conduct is not intended as catchall for every act which annoys or disturbs people,’ but the police in Noble’s case blatantly ignored the law and turned Pennsylvania’s disorderly conduct statute into a license to grab people off the street at will.”
Berosh said, “You have a right to strike a match, unless you’re in a TNT factory.”
Berosh also said it’s unfortunate that there’s “historical precedent” of violence at political rallies and presidential appearances, including the shootings of John F. Kennedy, his brother Robert F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan.
In the charges filed against Noble, state police trooper Shawn Schexnaildre wrote that if witness John Atkinson hadn’t been alarmed by Noble, Atkinson wouldn’t have notified nearby officers.
“This may be due to the fact that a political assassination is as devastating as any crime that can be committed and is nearly always committed with a gun. Either way, (Noble’s) actions, without question, created a public alarm,” Schexnaildre wrote.
Bill Vidonic can be reached online at bvidonic@timesonline.com.
WHEN DO YOU NEED A LICENSE?
In Pennsylvania, only those who wish to carry a concealed weapon must obtain a license.
Statute 18 P.C.S, 6106 defines when a person is breaking the law: Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
The punishment for the offense would depend on what a person’s prior criminal record is.
Source: Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes.
MAP OF SCENE
To see a map of the scene of Noble’s arrest, created by members of PAOpenCarry.org, go to http://paopencarry.org/beaver/map.jpg (State police and the Beaver County sheriff’s department have not commented on the accuracy of the map.)
By Bill Vidonic, Times Staff
Published: Saturday, September 6, 2008 11:52 PM EDT
John Noble said he’s openly worn a handgun while attending the annual Maple Syrup Festival in Bradys Run Park.
He’s worn it to a Bridgewater book signing.
The Industry man said he’s never been confronted by police over his habit of wearing a holstered pistol on his waist — that is until Aug. 29.
Noble’s arrest at the Barack Obama campaign rally at Beaver’s Irvine Park has raised questions about gun rights.
“There was no disturbance until (law enforcement) made one,” Noble said.
Beaver County District Attorney Anthony Berosh said the issue isn’t whether Noble was legally carrying a gun. State police said Noble did not violate the state’s open carry law, under which you don’t need a permit to carry a weapon in plain sight.
Instead, Berosh said, it’s a battle between two constitutional rights: The right to bear arms and the right to assemble peaceably and without fear.
“No constitutional right pre-empts the other,” Berosh said.
Berosh said Noble did not have the right to alarm anyone around him attending the Barack Obama rally in Irvine Park.
While Noble’s intentions might not have been sinister, Berosh said, “The people who don’t know him don’t know that.”
Noble’s arrest at the Obama rally has set off controversy. Gun right advocates say Noble’s rights were stepped on, while others say Noble should have known better than to take a gun to a presidential campaign rally.
Noble said he had no ill intent and that Obama’s constitutional rights didn’t take precedence over his.
THE INCIDENT
Noble was standing in McIntosh Park, next to Irvine Park, when people noticed that he was packing a gun in a holster and notified sheriff’s deputies.
After a brief confrontation Noble was taken into custody, and his gun, a Glock 9mm, was confiscated. He was questioned by state police and released.
Deputies and state police have said Noble did not threaten anyone with the gun, and it remained in his holster until it was confiscated. The gun hasn’t been returned yet.
THE FALLOUT
On Friday, state police charged Noble with one count each of disorderly conduct and disrupting meetings and processions.
State police wrote in a criminal complaint that they think Noble intended to disrupt the rally, because he posted a message on a Web site just before the rally telling people to “bring their guns and Bibles.”
State police said Noble put others around him in fear for their safety and that law enforcement agents had to abandon their posts at the Obama rally to deal with Noble.
State police did say that Noble did not illegally possess his weapon.
Federal authorities said they would not file charges against Noble because he did not enter Irvine Park. To do so, he would have had to pass through a metal detector.
THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
Beaver County Sheriff George David said a person who is wearing a gun in a holster, out in the open, doesn’t need a license to carry that weapon.
However, a person who wants to keep a weapon concealed on his body or carry it in a vehicle must obtain a license. Extra permission is necessary for a concealed weapon, David said, because a concealed weapon poses a greater danger to police.
A weapon is considered concealed if it’s worn under clothing or kept in a vehicle.
While David said he’s a gun advocate, he said Noble should not have taken the gun to the rally because of all the security present for Obama’s protection.
“I don’t think this was the time or the place to show your rights,” David said.
Noble’s case is not unique, however.
According to published reports, a Louisiana man last month received a monetary settlement for his January 2006 arrest at a Baton Rouge shopping mall.
In the incident, a police officer approached Mark Marchiafava, 55, of Baton Rouge, and asked why he was openly wearing a holstered weapon in a mall. Marchiafava replied that because he wasn’t a felon, he could legally carry a weapon in the open.
The officer took Marchiafava into custody and charged him with a count of illegal gun possession.
The charge was later dropped, and Marchiafava’s weapon was returned, but he sued the police department, claiming a violation of his civil rights. The terms of the settlement with the department have been sealed.
Noble’s case has already been heavily discussed on Web sites dedicated to gun rights.
Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of OpenCarry.org, said Friday, “John Noble was arrested for engaging in peaceful, constitutionally protected conduct in a park open to the public, i.e., passing out fliers while carrying a handgun in a secure holster. Noble was not intoxicated, fighting, cursing, or making loud noises.”
He also said, “Pennsylvania courts have repeatedly said that ‘the offense of disorderly conduct is not intended as catchall for every act which annoys or disturbs people,’ but the police in Noble’s case blatantly ignored the law and turned Pennsylvania’s disorderly conduct statute into a license to grab people off the street at will.”
Berosh said, “You have a right to strike a match, unless you’re in a TNT factory.”
Berosh also said it’s unfortunate that there’s “historical precedent” of violence at political rallies and presidential appearances, including the shootings of John F. Kennedy, his brother Robert F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan.
In the charges filed against Noble, state police trooper Shawn Schexnaildre wrote that if witness John Atkinson hadn’t been alarmed by Noble, Atkinson wouldn’t have notified nearby officers.
“This may be due to the fact that a political assassination is as devastating as any crime that can be committed and is nearly always committed with a gun. Either way, (Noble’s) actions, without question, created a public alarm,” Schexnaildre wrote.
Bill Vidonic can be reached online at bvidonic@timesonline.com.
WHEN DO YOU NEED A LICENSE?
In Pennsylvania, only those who wish to carry a concealed weapon must obtain a license.
Statute 18 P.C.S, 6106 defines when a person is breaking the law: Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
The punishment for the offense would depend on what a person’s prior criminal record is.
Source: Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes.
MAP OF SCENE
To see a map of the scene of Noble’s arrest, created by members of PAOpenCarry.org, go to http://paopencarry.org/beaver/map.jpg (State police and the Beaver County sheriff’s department have not commented on the accuracy of the map.)
Last edited by DarkStarr; Sep 6, 2008 at 09:02 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 14,544
Likes: 0
From: Holyoke, MA
spanky, i am all for you guys owning guns, carrying them where and when you want to.
but there is a presidential canidate coming to town. security is tight. police looking for anyone suspicious. this man chooses to open carry, they do not know his intentions. they can bring him in for questioning and hold him for 48 hours without charging him and letting him go. if this happened during a mccain protest i would still say the same thing.
do i think he should have any charges brought on him? no.
but there is a presidential canidate coming to town. security is tight. police looking for anyone suspicious. this man chooses to open carry, they do not know his intentions. they can bring him in for questioning and hold him for 48 hours without charging him and letting him go. if this happened during a mccain protest i would still say the same thing.
do i think he should have any charges brought on him? no.
I go duffy on dem bitches
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 28,248
Likes: 0
From: Gonzales, Louisiana
Who gives a fuck about Obama? Why is he more important than anyone else? If it were any other candidate I'd be saying the same shit. He showed no ill intent and last I checked, most criminals and murderers don't prominently display their weapon before an attack. Hell, I don't think I've ever heard of an instance where that occurred.
