New York Plans to Make Gender Personal Choice
11-07-2006, 07:25 AM
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New York Plans to Make Gender Personal Choice
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/07/ny...AJc1MwR6ci1JEQ
yeah, let's just throw science right out the fucking window. what the hell is wrong with people?
Separating anatomy from what it means to be a man or a woman, New York City is moving forward with a plan to let people alter the sex on their birth certificate even if they have not had sex-change surgery.
...
Joann Prinzivalli, 52, a lawyer for the New York Transgender Rights Organization, a man who has lived as a woman since 2000, without surgery, said the changes amount to progress, a move away from American culture’s misguided fixation on genitals as the basis for one’s gender identity.
“It’s based on an arbitrary distinction that says there are two and only two sexes,” she said. “In reality the diversity of nature is such that there are more than just two, and people who seem to belong to one of the designated sexes may really belong to the other.”
...
Joann Prinzivalli, 52, a lawyer for the New York Transgender Rights Organization, a man who has lived as a woman since 2000, without surgery, said the changes amount to progress, a move away from American culture’s misguided fixation on genitals as the basis for one’s gender identity.
“It’s based on an arbitrary distinction that says there are two and only two sexes,” she said. “In reality the diversity of nature is such that there are more than just two, and people who seem to belong to one of the designated sexes may really belong to the other.”
11-09-2006, 08:49 AM
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I agree with this in certain circumstances, as there are lots and lots of babies born every year that aren't clearly of one gender or another, and a lot of times what doctors thought was the gender ends up not to be.
Since it seems like you need a doctor to okay it, I'm going to say a hesitant "okay maybe"
Since it seems like you need a doctor to okay it, I'm going to say a hesitant "okay maybe"
11-09-2006, 09:05 AM
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I agree with this in certain circumstances, as there are lots and lots of babies born every year that aren't clearly of one gender or another, and a lot of times what doctors thought was the gender ends up not to be.
Since it seems like you need a doctor to okay it, I'm going to say a hesitant "okay maybe"
Since it seems like you need a doctor to okay it, I'm going to say a hesitant "okay maybe"
11-09-2006, 09:12 AM
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http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/003269.htm
Definition
A birth defect where the outer genitals do not have the typical appearance of either sex.
Typically, ambiguous genitalia in genetic females (babies with two X chromosomes) has the following features:
* An enlarged clitoris that has the appearance of a small penis.
* The urethral opening (where urine comes out) can be anywhere along, above, or below the surface of the clitoris.
* The labia may be fused, resembling a scrotum.
* The infant may be thought to be a male with undescended testicles.
* Sometimes a lump of tissue is felt within the fused labia, further making it look like a scrotum with testicles.
In a genetic male (one X and one Y chromosome), ambiguous genitalia typically include the following features:
* A small penis (less than 2-3 centimeters or 0.8-1.2 inches) that resemble an enlarged clitoris (the clitoris of a newborn female is normally somewhat enlarged at birth).
* The urethral opening may be anywhere along, above, or below the penis; it can be placed as low as on the peritoneum, further making the infant appear to be female.
* There may be a small scrotum with any degree of separation, resembling labia.
* Undescended testicles commonly accompany ambiguous genitalia.
http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency/
How common is intersex?
If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 births. But a lot more people than that are born with subtler forms of sex anatomy variations, some of which won’t show up until later in life.
11-09-2006, 09:17 AM
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Ambiguous genitalia
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/003269.htm
Definition
A birth defect where the outer genitals do not have the typical appearance of either sex.
Typically, ambiguous genitalia in genetic females (babies with two X chromosomes) has the following features:
* An enlarged clitoris that has the appearance of a small penis.
* The urethral opening (where urine comes out) can be anywhere along, above, or below the surface of the clitoris.
* The labia may be fused, resembling a scrotum.
* The infant may be thought to be a male with undescended testicles.
* Sometimes a lump of tissue is felt within the fused labia, further making it look like a scrotum with testicles.
In a genetic male (one X and one Y chromosome), ambiguous genitalia typically include the following features:
* A small penis (less than 2-3 centimeters or 0.8-1.2 inches) that resemble an enlarged clitoris (the clitoris of a newborn female is normally somewhat enlarged at birth).
* The urethral opening may be anywhere along, above, or below the penis; it can be placed as low as on the peritoneum, further making the infant appear to be female.
* There may be a small scrotum with any degree of separation, resembling labia.
* Undescended testicles commonly accompany ambiguous genitalia.
http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency/
How common is intersex?
If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 births. But a lot more people than that are born with subtler forms of sex anatomy variations, some of which won’t show up until later in life.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/003269.htm
Definition
A birth defect where the outer genitals do not have the typical appearance of either sex.
Typically, ambiguous genitalia in genetic females (babies with two X chromosomes) has the following features:
* An enlarged clitoris that has the appearance of a small penis.
* The urethral opening (where urine comes out) can be anywhere along, above, or below the surface of the clitoris.
* The labia may be fused, resembling a scrotum.
* The infant may be thought to be a male with undescended testicles.
* Sometimes a lump of tissue is felt within the fused labia, further making it look like a scrotum with testicles.
In a genetic male (one X and one Y chromosome), ambiguous genitalia typically include the following features:
* A small penis (less than 2-3 centimeters or 0.8-1.2 inches) that resemble an enlarged clitoris (the clitoris of a newborn female is normally somewhat enlarged at birth).
* The urethral opening may be anywhere along, above, or below the penis; it can be placed as low as on the peritoneum, further making the infant appear to be female.
* There may be a small scrotum with any degree of separation, resembling labia.
* Undescended testicles commonly accompany ambiguous genitalia.
http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency/
How common is intersex?
If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 births. But a lot more people than that are born with subtler forms of sex anatomy variations, some of which won’t show up until later in life.
But I would venture to say that this instance would be rare as compared to the TV/TS that would want to change their sex knowing full well they are biologically one sex but think they are the other.
11-09-2006, 09:25 AM
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I dunno, according to the second site (not 100% unbiased looking) intersex births are somewhere around 0.05% of population (1 in 2,000). I'd be amazed if 1 in 10,000 actually applied to legally change their gender.
Anyways, by the article:
It's not just John Doe walking down to the DMV and saying he wants to be Jane Doe. Assuming that the Board of Health actually reads and considers the doctor's affadavit rather than just rubberstamping all of them, and has some written standard for the hows and whys of the change, I don't see a problem with officially changing a person's gender.
Anyways, by the article:
people born in the city would be able to change the documented sex on their birth certificates by providing affidavits from a doctor and a mental health professional laying out why their patients should be considered members of the opposite sex, and asserting that their proposed change would be permanent.
It's not just John Doe walking down to the DMV and saying he wants to be Jane Doe. Assuming that the Board of Health actually reads and considers the doctor's affadavit rather than just rubberstamping all of them, and has some written standard for the hows and whys of the change, I don't see a problem with officially changing a person's gender.
11-09-2006, 11:52 AM
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except that this isn't just about the hermaphrodites with ambiguous genitalia. for those cases, i'm not arguing that they shouldn't be able to correct their sex from what may have initially been observed.
the problem i see is that this is also about the people like the 52yo lawyer mentioned in the article "who has lived as a woman since 2000". if you were born with a fully functioning penis, and only a penis, you are male. and vice versa for a female, PERIOD. this basic SCIENTIFIC FACT is not the "American culture’s misguided fixation on genitals as the basis for one’s gender identity." this is the basics of humanity.
to be able to claim otherwise legally is nucking futs.
the problem i see is that this is also about the people like the 52yo lawyer mentioned in the article "who has lived as a woman since 2000". if you were born with a fully functioning penis, and only a penis, you are male. and vice versa for a female, PERIOD. this basic SCIENTIFIC FACT is not the "American culture’s misguided fixation on genitals as the basis for one’s gender identity." this is the basics of humanity.
to be able to claim otherwise legally is nucking futs.
Last edited by reno96teg; 11-09-2006 at 11:56 AM.