fastball

I think it will be toned down quite a bit before final production, if it gets there.

The sharp edges around the instrument bezzels and the sharp crease along the top of the dash board will have to be smoothed out some how anyway. Safety regulations now prohibit those long, sharp, flat edges on dashboards today.

Imagine if you hit your head or neck on that in a sudden stop where the airbags don't inflate!

dubcac

Badass...but it'll turn out like the Mustang, and won't look anything near the concept.

Hambone

That is simply awesome.

WillT.

I like the design a lot, but I just hope that it will get toned down a little. I am a big fan of the Camaro and hope that this one will come out soon. I think that it would sell really well.

M Type X

Here are the photos I took on Saturday morning of the Camaro and Challenger concepts:
http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthre...b=5&o=&fpart=1

I think the Camaro needs to come as soon as it can, but I don't know where or how GM would produce it. What platform, what plant, etc etc

fastball

Good point. Unless they work things out with the Canada's UAW, they are going to have to build them at the St. Therese, Ontario plant where the old F-bodies were built. When GM halted production on them in '02, that union stipulated that if GM were ever to produce a car with the Camaro or Firebird badge, it would have to be done there and nowhere else.

Of course GM gave in to their petty demand. So now, if they do resume production there with this new one, don't be surprised if it's riddled with production quality issues considering the Canuck's bitterness about loosing their old jobs.

If I was GM, I'd build the best assembly line in the world, non union, staff it with people dedicated to making quality cars and not with union ties, and blow the automotive world away with the level of refinement, quality, and craftsmanship of this car.

The new Chevy Camaro - balls from the USA, handling of a BMW, craftsmanship, refinement, and reliability of a Lexus.

And the sticker can't go north of 30 grand.

I know it's a tall order, but if GM is going to survive, they MUST start doing this with each and every one of their new cars.

Ochdx

Keep dreaming.

And FYI, people arent dedicated to building cars, they are dedicated to make themselves money. There's nothing wrong with unions, high salaries, and benefits - all these things keep workers happy and working hard. The entire blame of GM's situation is on the management and Bob Lutz. It's not the factory workers fault that GM management keeps designing and approving for fabrication the ugliest, most disgusting cars known to human race. They just built whatever they are told do.

fastball

I know it's only a dream, but my point is that GM is at the point where, if they are going to survive, they must build cars that completely wow and floor everyone from Tokyo to Bavaria to Chicago. GM cannot release another car that has any hint of average to below average qualities.

The only reason I pointed out the union issue is because that's the stipulation the Canadian UAW put on GM in regards to the Camaro/Firebird nameplate. Truth is, the unions are only a part of the equation for GM's dive. Yes, it is also management, Lutz, Wagoner, engineering, QC, R&D, every facet of the company needs a complete wipe out. But what people have to understand is that nothing can really be done untill they break the unions. GM has obtusely gregarious contracts which they are bound to, and unless they get the unions to basically agree to give up all power, or file bankruptcy to shield themselves from the contracts, they really can't reorganize the company anyway.

It's pretty much a catch 22 for them. And believe me, their investors are getting antsy.

Ochdx

Well, I have no idea how Toyota's wages and benefits compare to that of GM's, but I would assume they are in the same ballpark, at least for the cars built in this country. If I was to work for a car manufacturer, I would try and work for the one that pays the most with best benefits, and so would anyone else. And the manufacturer that pays the most would have workers that are more loyal and work harded because they value their job.

I still say the problem is solely to be blamed on the management. They simply do not have a single vehicle that people want, besides maybe the corvette. They relied way too much on their mediocre SUVs, and have not paid a bit of attention to passenger cars. And even their SUVs are pure crap compared to what comes out of Japan these days.

And they are not learning their lesson, they just keep on making crap cars. The new Malibu and Impala are pathetic. They need to take a lesson from Hundai or Ford - the Fusion and Sonata are pretty impressive. Instead of cutting jobs GM needs start making mainstream cars that sell at a profit, not at a loss, and they will be back in the game in no time. And it's not that hard to do if you think about it. Let's take Accord vs Malibu for instance. People are willing to pay more for a 4 cylinder Accord than a 6 cylinder Malibu. However, I'm sure the 4 cyl Accord is cheaper to make. Malibu is on par with Accord mechanically, but it lacks a few interior/exterior touches, and slightly better interior materials. How expensive can these things be? If GM were to invest a few hundreed dollars extra into every Malibu, they could sell them for thousands more. But it seems that with every generation their cars are only getting worse and worse - and the management doesn't really give a flying crap, they are getting their pockets stuffed while the company is going down the drain.

Paul

The problem is the employees, simply put GM, Ford, DC have all been manufacturing cars in the United States for nearly a century. With that said, they have a older median age for employees, many of which are retiring everyday. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan do not have that problem...yet. They have not manufactured cars in the United states for nearly as long, do not employ as many blue collar workers. Healthcare for all these employees is one of the biggest problems for GM and the costs balloon every year. It's not fair to blame the UAW for the problems, but it is easy. I cannot blame the workers who have joined the UAW, up until recently it all but guranteed them jobs for a long time. Who cannot honestly sit here and say that the wouldn't want job security? Most people with that kind of job security do not work as hard, or care nearly as much about their job, what do they have to prove? What do they gain from doing a good job? Probably nothing, there is no incentive to work any harder than you need to. Why does GM continually build cars that do not sell? They build them, because it would be a waste of labor not to. GM is locked into giving these people a job, you might as well make them work. Work that is costing them even more. I could go on for days. I don't even think the Camaro can save them now. It's a good concept, but after everyone in production gets to put their two cents in, the concept usually gets diluted to the point where you can no longer tell it was the same car. It's time to file for bankruptcy.