Honda Announces Development of New Honda Hybrid System Featuring 3-Stage i-VTEC + IMA
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From: Los Angeles
Huh? Prius owners never get close to the sticker MPG? I get 50 - 52 MPG average every tank of gas. Mostly Highway driving and the roads are flat. City I can get a little more. If there are hills then my mileage drops.
I just drove to Las Vegas and averaged 50.5 MPG round trip from Los Angeles so I would say that the Prius delivers close to the advertised MPG. I drove between 70 and 80 miles per hour depending on traffic conditions.
I don't drive my Prius hard but I don't drive like a little old lady either. It's a game that you need to play with the accellerator. No need to punch the gas off the line or have your foot on the gas when you know you have a stop up ahead.
With a slight change in driving style you can definitely come close to the 60/51 that Toyota advertises.
I just drove to Las Vegas and averaged 50.5 MPG round trip from Los Angeles so I would say that the Prius delivers close to the advertised MPG. I drove between 70 and 80 miles per hour depending on traffic conditions.
I don't drive my Prius hard but I don't drive like a little old lady either. It's a game that you need to play with the accellerator. No need to punch the gas off the line or have your foot on the gas when you know you have a stop up ahead.
With a slight change in driving style you can definitely come close to the 60/51 that Toyota advertises.
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From: CA
i agree that the prius has a completely different image, aided by the huge amount of publicity and "celebrity" exposure it gets. and this is a huge factor, but it's not the "only" or "entire" reason why the prius is so successful. i also agree that honda does a painfully small amount of advertising. but if you take all that away, an average buyer is going to see things like cost, power, EPA fuel efficiency ratings...
while the fuel economy numbers may or may not be accurate, with significantly more power, a competitive price, and seemingly better efficiency, how does your average non-enthusiast buyer know any better? most people aren't looking into the inner workings of each hybrid system, which one they think makes the most sense - no, one is more efficient than the other.
while the fuel economy numbers may or may not be accurate, with significantly more power, a competitive price, and seemingly better efficiency, how does your average non-enthusiast buyer know any better? most people aren't looking into the inner workings of each hybrid system, which one they think makes the most sense - no, one is more efficient than the other.
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From: NY
Originally Posted by asianautica
I'm sure Nissan and other manufacturers who will use Toyota's technology looked over Honda's technology first before they choose Toyota's version. Which mean the toyota's version is probably better, or is at least cheaper.
I don't know if they are better, but at the end of the day, no one is sure if Honda Civic hybrid or the Prius is (slightly) better anyway. It doesn't really matter.
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From: Location Location
Originally Posted by ziggy23
Huh? Prius owners never get close to the sticker MPG? I get 50 - 52 MPG average every tank of gas. Mostly Highway driving and the roads are flat. City I can get a little more. If there are hills then my mileage drops.
I just drove to Las Vegas and averaged 50.5 MPG round trip from Los Angeles so I would say that the Prius delivers close to the advertised MPG. I drove between 70 and 80 miles per hour depending on traffic conditions.
I don't drive my Prius hard but I don't drive like a little old lady either. It's a game that you need to play with the accellerator. No need to punch the gas off the line or have your foot on the gas when you know you have a stop up ahead.
With a slight change in driving style you can definitely come close to the 60/51 that Toyota advertises.
I just drove to Las Vegas and averaged 50.5 MPG round trip from Los Angeles so I would say that the Prius delivers close to the advertised MPG. I drove between 70 and 80 miles per hour depending on traffic conditions.
I don't drive my Prius hard but I don't drive like a little old lady either. It's a game that you need to play with the accellerator. No need to punch the gas off the line or have your foot on the gas when you know you have a stop up ahead.
With a slight change in driving style you can definitely come close to the 60/51 that Toyota advertises.
yes and you've just proved my point. you have to drive like a granny to get anywhere near the advertised mpg.
this is direct from my old neighbor who had the 1st gen prius which he sold for the 2nd gen. not sure which state you're in but if you drove to vegas from LA you'd be going through some serious mountain ranges. I find it hard to believe (not impossible but not likely) that you were able to get 50mpg.
but again this isn't my own speculation but from another owner.
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I do think new Civic Hybrid will sport better fuel efficiency, though.
The reason is simple: Honda designed the entire Integrated Motor Assist hybrid drivetrain for the 2006 Civic Hybrid literally from scratch.
Note that the new 1.3-liter gasoline engine with its three-stage SOHC i-VTEC operation was designed to specifically match the electric motor assistance used in IMA. This is not like the current Civic Hybrid, which essentially uses the 85 bhp 1.3-liter i-DSI engine from the Honda Fit/Jazz integrated with an electric motor assist--not exactly the most efficient combination!
In my humble opinion, we may see EPA ratings in the low 50's for both city/highway driving with the CVT and (hopefully!) 6MT configurations.
DakarM, having driven from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, NV myself there are two significant (and quite steep!) passes you have on Interstate 15 between these two cities: Cajon Pass just north of San Bernadino, CA and the mountain pass south of Wheaton Spring, CA fairly close to the California-Nevada border. ziggy23 probably gained a lot of fuel mileage from going downhill at both passes, which explains why ziggy23 was able to get around 50 mpg on the Los Angeles-Las Vegas round trip. By the way, given the informative display on the Prius, you actually have a visual incentive to drive the car with a feather foot to improve gas mileage.
Note that the new 1.3-liter gasoline engine with its three-stage SOHC i-VTEC operation was designed to specifically match the electric motor assistance used in IMA. This is not like the current Civic Hybrid, which essentially uses the 85 bhp 1.3-liter i-DSI engine from the Honda Fit/Jazz integrated with an electric motor assist--not exactly the most efficient combination!
In my humble opinion, we may see EPA ratings in the low 50's for both city/highway driving with the CVT and (hopefully!) 6MT configurations.
DakarM, having driven from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, NV myself there are two significant (and quite steep!) passes you have on Interstate 15 between these two cities: Cajon Pass just north of San Bernadino, CA and the mountain pass south of Wheaton Spring, CA fairly close to the California-Nevada border. ziggy23 probably gained a lot of fuel mileage from going downhill at both passes, which explains why ziggy23 was able to get around 50 mpg on the Los Angeles-Las Vegas round trip. By the way, given the informative display on the Prius, you actually have a visual incentive to drive the car with a feather foot to improve gas mileage.
Last edited by MtViewGuy88; Jul 6, 2005 at 01:56 PM. Reason: add more information
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From: CA
the new civic hybrid may indeed have equal or better fuel economy than the prius. who knows how the EPA rating will turn out
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...e/12064294.htm
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http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...e/12064294.htm
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Civic pursuing Prius MPG rating
By Matt Nauman
Mercury News
Consumers bought more hybrid vehicles in the first six months of 2005 than they did in all of 2004, and automakers including Honda are competing aggressively for shares of that booming market.
Honda said Tuesday in Japan that its redesigned 2006 Civic Hybrid, which goes on sale in October, will get 5 percent better gas mileage than the 2005 model.
According to press reports from Tokyo, the Civic will top the hybrid bestseller, Toyota's Prius, in fuel economy. But Andy Boyd, spokesman for American Honda in Torrance, said the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's mileage testing differs from the method used in Japan, so he's not sure yet whether Honda will be able to make that claim in the United States.
Still, Boyd said, the 2006 Civic Hybrid will achieve a 3 mpg gain vs. the 2005 model. The 2005 Civic Hybrid gets 47 to 48 mpg in city driving and 47 to 48 mpg on the highway when equipped with an automatic transmission, according to the government's www. fueleconomy.gov Web site.
That means the 2006 version ``will be 50 or better for both city and highway,'' Boyd said.
``In the real world, we'll be very competitive'' with Prius, he said.
U.S. car buyers bought 85,699 hybrids in 2004. So far this year, they've bought 92,558. The Prius, at 53,308 in sales, is responsible for about 58 percent of hybrid market. Honda's three models -- the Civic, Accord and Insight -- account for about 23 percent.
Few details of the 2006 Civic Hybrid were released in Tokyo by Honda Senior Managing Director Motoatsu Shiraishi, according to reports by the Associated Press and Bloomberg News. Boyd said Honda engineers improved the car's Integrated Motor Assist hybrid system, giving it better battery power, greater engine efficiency and a ``big improvement in regenerative braking,'' which recharges the battery.
Despite the improvements, the Prius still will get better mpg in city driving. The 2005 Prius gets 51 mpg on the highway and 60 mpg in city driving, according to the EPA.
Honda's tiny two-seat Insight, at 61/66 city/highway mpg, remains the most fuel-stingy hybrid.
Toyota isn't sitting still while Honda improves its hybrid lineup. The Japanese daily Asahi Shinbum reported Tuesday that Toyota intends to double its hybrid production in 2006 to 500,000 units, mainly to satisfy North American demand. Toyota has said it will produce hybrid versions of its Camry sedan in Kentucky next year, and add another hybrid to its Lexus lineup in 2006.
The hybrids from Toyota and Ford are considered full hybrids because their electric motors can move the cars when the gasoline engine isn't running. With Honda's current hybrid system, the electric motor boosts the gasoline engine but doesn't move the drive wheels by itself.
While differences will still exist in Toyota's and Honda's systems, the 2006 Civic Hybrid will be able to operate -- at times -- solely on electric power for the first time. ``Not from a start,'' Boyd said, ``but in a low-speed cruising mode, like going down a boulevard at 30 mph in a fairly steady state.''
It's clear from Tuesday's announcement that Honda continues to fight Toyota in the battle of public perception over which company is more committed to the environment.
Last week, for instance, Honda began leasing one of its hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles to a family in Southern California.
There's no question, however, that Toyota is selling more hybrids. It's expected to sell 100,000 Prius models this year.
Sales of the Honda Civic Hybrid are ``a fraction of that,'' said Anthony Pratt, senior manager of global power rain forecasting at J.D. Power-LMC Automotive Forecasting Services.
``If they want to continue to get recognition for being environmentally responsible or as a leader in hybrid technology, they need to try to keep this in the press,'' he said.
The 2006 version of the Prius won't go on sale until November, Toyota spokesman Sam Butto said Tuesday. The company hasn't released details of how that model will change, but Butto said ``performance attributes should not be changing, but some new amenities will be available.''
Toyota's second hybrid, the 2006 Highlander sport-utility, went on sale June 6. Lexus, Toyota's upscale division, put its own hybrid SUV, the RX 400h, on sale in April.
Ford's hybrid Escape sport-utility went on sale in October. A hybrid Mercury Mariner, a slightly upscale version of the Escape, becomes available in the fall, but dealers will begin taking orders Monday.
Power-LMC said hybrid sales, which accounted for 0.5 percent of the U.S. auto market in 2004, would grow to 3.5 percent by 2012. And the number of hybrid models available will grow from 10 in 2005 to 44 by 2012.
By Matt Nauman
Mercury News
Consumers bought more hybrid vehicles in the first six months of 2005 than they did in all of 2004, and automakers including Honda are competing aggressively for shares of that booming market.
Honda said Tuesday in Japan that its redesigned 2006 Civic Hybrid, which goes on sale in October, will get 5 percent better gas mileage than the 2005 model.
According to press reports from Tokyo, the Civic will top the hybrid bestseller, Toyota's Prius, in fuel economy. But Andy Boyd, spokesman for American Honda in Torrance, said the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's mileage testing differs from the method used in Japan, so he's not sure yet whether Honda will be able to make that claim in the United States.
Still, Boyd said, the 2006 Civic Hybrid will achieve a 3 mpg gain vs. the 2005 model. The 2005 Civic Hybrid gets 47 to 48 mpg in city driving and 47 to 48 mpg on the highway when equipped with an automatic transmission, according to the government's www. fueleconomy.gov Web site.
That means the 2006 version ``will be 50 or better for both city and highway,'' Boyd said.
``In the real world, we'll be very competitive'' with Prius, he said.
U.S. car buyers bought 85,699 hybrids in 2004. So far this year, they've bought 92,558. The Prius, at 53,308 in sales, is responsible for about 58 percent of hybrid market. Honda's three models -- the Civic, Accord and Insight -- account for about 23 percent.
Few details of the 2006 Civic Hybrid were released in Tokyo by Honda Senior Managing Director Motoatsu Shiraishi, according to reports by the Associated Press and Bloomberg News. Boyd said Honda engineers improved the car's Integrated Motor Assist hybrid system, giving it better battery power, greater engine efficiency and a ``big improvement in regenerative braking,'' which recharges the battery.
Despite the improvements, the Prius still will get better mpg in city driving. The 2005 Prius gets 51 mpg on the highway and 60 mpg in city driving, according to the EPA.
Honda's tiny two-seat Insight, at 61/66 city/highway mpg, remains the most fuel-stingy hybrid.
Toyota isn't sitting still while Honda improves its hybrid lineup. The Japanese daily Asahi Shinbum reported Tuesday that Toyota intends to double its hybrid production in 2006 to 500,000 units, mainly to satisfy North American demand. Toyota has said it will produce hybrid versions of its Camry sedan in Kentucky next year, and add another hybrid to its Lexus lineup in 2006.
The hybrids from Toyota and Ford are considered full hybrids because their electric motors can move the cars when the gasoline engine isn't running. With Honda's current hybrid system, the electric motor boosts the gasoline engine but doesn't move the drive wheels by itself.
While differences will still exist in Toyota's and Honda's systems, the 2006 Civic Hybrid will be able to operate -- at times -- solely on electric power for the first time. ``Not from a start,'' Boyd said, ``but in a low-speed cruising mode, like going down a boulevard at 30 mph in a fairly steady state.''
It's clear from Tuesday's announcement that Honda continues to fight Toyota in the battle of public perception over which company is more committed to the environment.
Last week, for instance, Honda began leasing one of its hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles to a family in Southern California.
There's no question, however, that Toyota is selling more hybrids. It's expected to sell 100,000 Prius models this year.
Sales of the Honda Civic Hybrid are ``a fraction of that,'' said Anthony Pratt, senior manager of global power rain forecasting at J.D. Power-LMC Automotive Forecasting Services.
``If they want to continue to get recognition for being environmentally responsible or as a leader in hybrid technology, they need to try to keep this in the press,'' he said.
The 2006 version of the Prius won't go on sale until November, Toyota spokesman Sam Butto said Tuesday. The company hasn't released details of how that model will change, but Butto said ``performance attributes should not be changing, but some new amenities will be available.''
Toyota's second hybrid, the 2006 Highlander sport-utility, went on sale June 6. Lexus, Toyota's upscale division, put its own hybrid SUV, the RX 400h, on sale in April.
Ford's hybrid Escape sport-utility went on sale in October. A hybrid Mercury Mariner, a slightly upscale version of the Escape, becomes available in the fall, but dealers will begin taking orders Monday.
Power-LMC said hybrid sales, which accounted for 0.5 percent of the U.S. auto market in 2004, would grow to 3.5 percent by 2012. And the number of hybrid models available will grow from 10 in 2005 to 44 by 2012.
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From: Los Angeles
Originally Posted by DakarM
yes and you've just proved my point. you have to drive like a granny to get anywhere near the advertised mpg.
this is direct from my old neighbor who had the 1st gen prius which he sold for the 2nd gen. not sure which state you're in but if you drove to vegas from LA you'd be going through some serious mountain ranges. I find it hard to believe (not impossible but not likely) that you were able to get 50mpg.
but again this isn't my own speculation but from another owner.
this is direct from my old neighbor who had the 1st gen prius which he sold for the 2nd gen. not sure which state you're in but if you drove to vegas from LA you'd be going through some serious mountain ranges. I find it hard to believe (not impossible but not likely) that you were able to get 50mpg.
but again this isn't my own speculation but from another owner.
No, I disproved your point. I said in my original post that I don't drive it like a granny. My other car is a base RSX and though I don't drive the Prius like the RSX, I'm able to drive the Prius almost like a normal car with a slight change in driving style. No hard accelleration unless absolutely necessary and a lot of cruising at speeds on flat surfaces.
I live in Los Angeles and I drove to Vegas and got 50 MPG going to Vegas and 52 MPG driving back. There are a lot of hills but you make up for it by coasting down the hills. I don't think 70 mph is driving slow.
I know another Prius owner who lives in an area where there are a lot of hills and they only drive city but they get only 42 MPG. So it does depend on the terrain and how you drive but there are Prius owners who actually get 55+ MPG but they really do drive like a granny.
I guess the Prius isn't for everyone but everyone that has driven mine was surprised at the feel of the car and the overall quality and ride.
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From: Location Location
okay so our definition of driving like a granny differs.
70mph in LA freeway is damn slow. I drive 10+ and I get passed like I'm standing still.
I also didn't say everyone doesn't get close to the advertised mpg. I said they hardly ever do with normal driving. IMO your driving style is granny driving style.
70mph in LA freeway is damn slow. I drive 10+ and I get passed like I'm standing still.
I also didn't say everyone doesn't get close to the advertised mpg. I said they hardly ever do with normal driving. IMO your driving style is granny driving style.
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Originally Posted by WiLL
...I really wanna get out and shoot people.