Warning: Honda Hybrid Battery Warranty!!
07-14-2005, 03:28 PM
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Warning: Honda Hybrid Battery Warranty!!
Boy I hate to have to be writing post, but since Honda USA has decided to turn their back on me, I feel have have no other leverage in this situation and I can only hope others considering the purchase of a Honda Hybrid and reading this post will think twice about it.
I own a Honda Insight. I've owned it for over 4 years now, and it has been a great vehicle. I have had it serviced regularly by Honda and have not missed a single scheduled maintenance visit. This June, on a trip from where I live in the California Sierras to Las Vegas, a funny thing started to happen. This drive involves a lot of hills, and traveling with my wife, we were near the load limit for the car. Driving in the mountains, you use a lot of battery - you can't help it. The good news is that you can get good recharges as you drive back downhill from you ascents. Anyhow, I noticed that once my battery got one or two "lines" below 1/2, the battery charge dropped precipitously. I mean it dropped to just 2 lines in about 10-15 seconds. Even worse, it didn't matter whether I was driving at the time or not. I tested this by pulling over to the side, putting the car in neutral and letting the engine shut down as it normally does, but the battery drain, once started always dropped to 2 lines - despite its not being used at all at the time!
Now this is not good. But to make it just a little bit worse, I still needed to bring the charge all the way back through the "drop range" in order to get it back where I could use it again. The only good thing about this trip was that the trip down to Vegas was on June 10, and the trip back on June 19. It was fortunately very mild weather in the Nevada high desert aone those dates, and I could often run without AC when at altitude. Had we been driving during the present heat wave, we would have been in very serious trouble.
So once I got back, I took the car into the dealer and explained the problem. They ran all their tests and told me the car, and the battery system was fine. I then took the mechanic who worked on the car out for a drive. I drained the battery to half, and watch carefully. Once it started to drop, I pulled over the side of the road, put the car in neutral and let the engine shut down. His jaw dropped about as quickly as the the battery did.
At this point he agreed that the battery system was not fine, but given the limited experience he had with hybrids, he needed to call Honda USA's tech advisors. They indicated that - even though the battery is "fully" warranted for eight (count 'em: 8) years, and even though it was clearly failing, that they would not fix it under warranty because it had not "failed enough" to set off their bloody IMA indicator lights. "Failed enough" - gotta love that logic!
Ok, so I escalated this to Honda Customer Service at the behest of the service manager at my dealer since their hands were tied in the matter.The upshot of all that, is that after playing over a week's worth of phone tag, Honda won't do anything to correct the problem. They do acknowledge that the battery is failing and offered to extend the battery's warranty to 125,00 miles, but what the heck good would another 2 or 3 years do me. If the battery is going to fail completely while I'm out in the high desert, that extension won't help worth beans. Further, I honestly believe that either the battery will continue to deteriorate over the next 3 or 4 years to the point where the IMA light will fail, or it will just reach a crippled point and stop detriorating. In either case, such a warranty extension is clearly worthless. They were trying to throw me a bone to shut me up and have me go away. I declined.
So now I have two choices: I can try to sell what I know to be a failing vehicle - even if Honda's morales don't mind that, mine do - or I can try to live with it until it "fails more" - perhaps leaving me in a seriously bad situation when that happens. I don't not find either of these alternatives acceptable. As such, I feel that my only recourse at this time is to let everyone I can know about this incident and warn then away from Honda's hybrid vehicles. Their battery warranty isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
My short advice to all reading this: Buy a Prius!
Most Sincerely,
= Ed Rotberg =
I own a Honda Insight. I've owned it for over 4 years now, and it has been a great vehicle. I have had it serviced regularly by Honda and have not missed a single scheduled maintenance visit. This June, on a trip from where I live in the California Sierras to Las Vegas, a funny thing started to happen. This drive involves a lot of hills, and traveling with my wife, we were near the load limit for the car. Driving in the mountains, you use a lot of battery - you can't help it. The good news is that you can get good recharges as you drive back downhill from you ascents. Anyhow, I noticed that once my battery got one or two "lines" below 1/2, the battery charge dropped precipitously. I mean it dropped to just 2 lines in about 10-15 seconds. Even worse, it didn't matter whether I was driving at the time or not. I tested this by pulling over to the side, putting the car in neutral and letting the engine shut down as it normally does, but the battery drain, once started always dropped to 2 lines - despite its not being used at all at the time!
Now this is not good. But to make it just a little bit worse, I still needed to bring the charge all the way back through the "drop range" in order to get it back where I could use it again. The only good thing about this trip was that the trip down to Vegas was on June 10, and the trip back on June 19. It was fortunately very mild weather in the Nevada high desert aone those dates, and I could often run without AC when at altitude. Had we been driving during the present heat wave, we would have been in very serious trouble.
So once I got back, I took the car into the dealer and explained the problem. They ran all their tests and told me the car, and the battery system was fine. I then took the mechanic who worked on the car out for a drive. I drained the battery to half, and watch carefully. Once it started to drop, I pulled over the side of the road, put the car in neutral and let the engine shut down. His jaw dropped about as quickly as the the battery did.
At this point he agreed that the battery system was not fine, but given the limited experience he had with hybrids, he needed to call Honda USA's tech advisors. They indicated that - even though the battery is "fully" warranted for eight (count 'em: 8) years, and even though it was clearly failing, that they would not fix it under warranty because it had not "failed enough" to set off their bloody IMA indicator lights. "Failed enough" - gotta love that logic!
Ok, so I escalated this to Honda Customer Service at the behest of the service manager at my dealer since their hands were tied in the matter.The upshot of all that, is that after playing over a week's worth of phone tag, Honda won't do anything to correct the problem. They do acknowledge that the battery is failing and offered to extend the battery's warranty to 125,00 miles, but what the heck good would another 2 or 3 years do me. If the battery is going to fail completely while I'm out in the high desert, that extension won't help worth beans. Further, I honestly believe that either the battery will continue to deteriorate over the next 3 or 4 years to the point where the IMA light will fail, or it will just reach a crippled point and stop detriorating. In either case, such a warranty extension is clearly worthless. They were trying to throw me a bone to shut me up and have me go away. I declined.
So now I have two choices: I can try to sell what I know to be a failing vehicle - even if Honda's morales don't mind that, mine do - or I can try to live with it until it "fails more" - perhaps leaving me in a seriously bad situation when that happens. I don't not find either of these alternatives acceptable. As such, I feel that my only recourse at this time is to let everyone I can know about this incident and warn then away from Honda's hybrid vehicles. Their battery warranty isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
My short advice to all reading this: Buy a Prius!
Most Sincerely,
= Ed Rotberg =
07-24-2005, 06:24 PM
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How would it leave you in a bad situation when it fails? Take it to the dealer and get a new battery under the extended 125k offer honda gave you when it does fail...What's the problem??? BTW, the toyota's prius has a stalling and fails to restart problem that toyota can't seem to fix right now so consider yourself luckier.
I can't see why are informed person would buy a hybrid other than to feel "good" about getting 15mpg more than the next guy in a standard civic or maybe to just be a show off. The fact of the matter is the hybrid is and will be just a fade until hydrogen cars replace it, which in my opinion is a little dumber than the hybrid but the sheep will flock to it and buy into the lie that it's good for the enviroment, blah, blah
Yes it's makes no emissions except water but where does hydrogen come from huh???
hmm, let's see for the most part to get it we burn coal or natural gas to make electricity. When we burn the natural gas or coal guess what we make pollution. We lose like 75% of the energy from the electricity when we use it to split the water atoms to get the hydrogen. It's pretty wasteful. Hydrogen will cost like 3-4 times more than gasoline when you buy it at the pump too. (you know it costs more to produce)
But I can already forsee a stampede to go buy one so they can get special plates that say stupid shit like no smog or something stupid all the while we are in fact polluting and the end consumer is paying more....good racket, wish I'd thought of it first..
I can't see why are informed person would buy a hybrid other than to feel "good" about getting 15mpg more than the next guy in a standard civic or maybe to just be a show off. The fact of the matter is the hybrid is and will be just a fade until hydrogen cars replace it, which in my opinion is a little dumber than the hybrid but the sheep will flock to it and buy into the lie that it's good for the enviroment, blah, blah
Yes it's makes no emissions except water but where does hydrogen come from huh???
hmm, let's see for the most part to get it we burn coal or natural gas to make electricity. When we burn the natural gas or coal guess what we make pollution. We lose like 75% of the energy from the electricity when we use it to split the water atoms to get the hydrogen. It's pretty wasteful. Hydrogen will cost like 3-4 times more than gasoline when you buy it at the pump too. (you know it costs more to produce)
But I can already forsee a stampede to go buy one so they can get special plates that say stupid shit like no smog or something stupid all the while we are in fact polluting and the end consumer is paying more....good racket, wish I'd thought of it first..
07-25-2005, 08:56 AM
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So you don't come to ask for help, but you come here to bitch and whine...nice going, Ed. I don't really understand what the problem is, you have 4 more years for the batteries to actually fail before the warranty expires. Grow up dude.
07-25-2005, 07:02 PM
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They hybrids are good. You'll pass smog forever and the gas mileage is significantly better than traditional cars. Sure, the initial cost is a little bit more but you'll save that in gas in no time. I think they should make a V4 instead of a straight 4. Then they could encorperate the Variable Cylinder Managment into the 4 cylinder cars as well.
07-29-2005, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by foot
They hybrids are good. You'll pass smog forever and the gas mileage is significantly better than traditional cars. Sure, the initial cost is a little bit more but you'll save that in gas in no time. I think they should make a V4 instead of a straight 4. Then they could encorperate the Variable Cylinder Managment into the 4 cylinder cars as well.
No smog on hybrids at least in cali, it gets better gas mileage but it's not like a 50% increase or anything. Average customers I talk to say it's around 55-60 mpg on the civic and 50 on the accord. Insights are a little higher than that because they are lighter and have no rear seats etc.. Do a google search and you'll fine plenty of infomation on how the savings in gas will not justify the battery replacement if you keep it long term....Not to mention the bodies of the cars are made from lighter materials like aluminum and I've seen pictures of wrecked hybrids and it's not pretty(again google).
07-29-2005, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by foot
They hybrids are good. You'll pass smog forever and the gas mileage is significantly better than traditional cars. Sure, the initial cost is a little bit more but you'll save that in gas in no time. I think they should make a V4 instead of a straight 4. Then they could encorperate the Variable Cylinder Managment into the 4 cylinder cars as well.
I don't think you would need a v4 to use VCM technology, I don't see why you couldn't use it on a straight 4 cyl. without problems. Just turn off the injectors and coilson the 3 cyl's and vent the 3 cyl's so they don't pump air and you would run one like at cruise only conditions..It might be smoother and you wouldn't need active motor mounts and the fancy computer to throw out freqencys through the stereo speakers to make you think there isn't noise coming from the engine bay like on the 05 ody...