ISP James

ripped apart my spare head today... gonna take it to a machinist and get some work done.

first, here is my objective:
to make more power all motor without eliminating the possibilitly of going turbo in the future. dont wanna run crazy boost, probably 8psi for a benchmark.

im gonna get a 3 angle valve job so question #1 - who has had one done and what kinda power gains did you get? did you dyno it or are you using your brain-dyno for a reasonable estimate?

for cams, im looking at crower 402's... good idea?

for springs im not sure which to go with... i saw crower 68181 and 68182... the 182's are stiffer... should i go with the stiffer springs?

valve recommendations? i dont think i wanna go oversized.

for my bottom end, i think im gonna keep stock c/r 9.2:1

should i bore .010 over, .020 over, or keep it stock bore?

crower makes "econo-rods" says they are stronger than stock but not as strong as their top end rods.... bad idea? should i just pay the extra money for something stronger such as eagle h-beams?

should i get a block guard? what kind, where can i find it?

i know thats a lot of crower gear, im not hellbent on buying crower, i just know them as a reputable company and since i was on their site anyway, i figured i might as well check it all.

thanks :thumbup:

pomansouth

no block guard, they cause more probs then they do good for a daily driver.(what i hear) econo rods are a maby, but this can be left up to your wallet. go .20 over if they do quality work. the regular springs are good enough for stock red line and those cams. those cams are decient for N/A but they are in opposition with turbo. Three angle valve job is worth the money assuming that you have enough air flow to need it. Also you might want to consider a mild port and polish with the valve job. just take all of the enges off of the corners and so forth.

white_n_slow

some people swear by block guards, some swear at them... Its probably better than nothing, but you may have coolant flow issues. If you have the time/cash, sleeving is really the only way to do it right, especially if you plan to overbore.

As for cams, theres nothing better than Crower... I'd call them up and tell them what your goals are, and just get whatever springs they recommend.

The Eagle H-beam is a great budget rod (I wouldn't call them super-strong... maybe medium-strong h: ). They regularly go for around $300 a set, and can hold any kinda power you'd generate @ 8psi (or 15+ psi, for that matter).

:edit:as for the c/r, you wont be making much power until you boost the bish @ 9.2:1...

If turbo is really the final goal, I'd reconsider the cam thing... turbo cams really aren't necessary until you've gotten everything else taken care of and you're at pretty high power levels. Stock cams are pretty darn good for streetable turbo setups.

:edit: :edit: Were you planing on using stock pistons? If so, they don't really work w/ aftermarket rods (they can be machined to, but generally not a good idea). Good rule of thumb: stock rods, stock pistons; aftermarket rods, aftermarket pistons.

ISP James

yep, aftermarket pistons. i was looking at SRP's.

how much are sleeves?

guess i never realized eagle H beams are so cheap - that works out well and i know a lot of people run them and i dont think ive ever heard anything bad about 'em....

i wanna upgrade my cams cuz like i say, i might never make it to turbo... and i dont wanna have a motor that sucks without it... so, i figure upgrade now and if the ones i use are no good for turbo, i guess ill have to swap em out if i do get around to boosting it. that's the same reason im going to stick with stock c/r... lowering will be an all motor disaster, raising will suck if i wanna go turbo in the future.

step one is getting the head work done... i have a spare head in my car right now, gonna take it to the cleaner today and get her sparkling... machinist sometime this week for the 3 angle and ill see if i can find some prices on a mild p&p.
step 2 is finding a b18b block (i have a b18a if it doesnt sell maybe ill just use that)
step 3 is building that
step 4 put it all together and drop it in

thanks for your help, guys and anymore feedback is always welcome :thumbup:

white_n_slow

ok, in my opinion, you have to make a choice NOW before you start building for two reasons:

1) If, like you say, you may never turbo, you're not gonna make any significant power at 9.2:1 compression ratio. You will have just wasted all that time and money on headwork, forged internals and assembly. Basically, you'll still be slow, only you'll be poor too.

2) The cam thing also seems like an awful waste of time and money if you end up boosting. Plus, aftermarket n/a cams are generally designed to work with a higher c/r and wont make much power at 9.2:1.

I think you should decide right now if you'll turbo or not, before you waste a lot of money building up a block that will perform essentially like stock.

The other option, of course, would be to build for turbo, and then just nitrous the motor until you can afford the turbo equipment. Building for turbo and nitrous is essentially the same process, and the same principles apply (lower compression, stronger internal components, reinforced sleeves, etc).

BTW: Sleeving generally costs around $1000 (plus shipping costs). The best route would be to have the sleeve manufacturer install them themselves--major peace of mind factor there (the most common cause of sleeve failure isn't huge boost, its poor installation). PM westcoaststyle if you decide to go this route... he's in with the AEBS guys. Of course, if you decide to stay all-motor, sleeving wont be necessary.

qtiger

Eagle H beams == Crower econobillet.


Crower just does some finishing work on them.

The Crowers are lighter, which is always good but I'm not sure on their strength vs. Eagle.

ISP James

how much power do you think i can make by increasing my c/r all motor and not vtec? i know that keeping my bottom end at stock specs - even if i bore .020 - im not gonna make much extra power but there should be no major decrease in dependability, either... i dont wanna build assuming im gonna go turbo, even if i were to run nitrous, refilling bottles would get expensive fast and i know how i am - if i go nitrous now, ill never bother going turbo later.

this sucks, i should just trade my car in for something that is already fast :sad:

white_n_slow

I didn't mean to discourage you, man. :happysad: You just have to know what you're getting into before you start. Lets just start with what your goals are, and work from there.

Its possible to make over 200whp with a n/a B18B, but that wouldn't be the best route for a street car. A stock B18B makes a good starting point for turbo, and you could make very respectable numbers with no internal modification at all. If you want to build, a CRVTEC is a great n/a motor when done right. You have plenty of options, don't give up just yet. You just gotta be perfectly clear on what your goals are. :thumbup:

westcoaststyle

I've done a lot of the things you've mentioned.

3 angle valve job - didn't notice a difference because I did it when I swapped... going from a D15B7 to a B18C1 is a jump in itself, but I built it all before hand so I don't have a baseline to give you.

A 0.010 overbore will be just fine to clean up the stock sleeves. You could go 0.020 over, but there's really no need.

I ran Eagle rods up to 282 whp and they never even felt it. After recently taking the rods out, they actually look identical to when I put them in the block. They are not even used. :chuckles:

What motor is this again? I assume B18A/B because of the CR. Why do you want to upgrade the cams? If you do decide to do the valves/springs/retainers you need to do the cams. I've always been discouraged from upgrading cams because they say the stock GSR cams will handle a great deal of HP. I don't know about the LS cams though. I think it would be a waste, but that's jmo.

What are your goals, James?

hih

dustimus

Wow, haven't seen a thread like this in a while. Lots of info and no bickering. I guess its us noobs that are the source of all bad threads