Vigilante Justice
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From: Foundry
Vigilante Justice
What's your take on it
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/ho...cmpid=15585797
What basically happened is there was a 11 year old girl that was raped, she gave a description of the perp, they found someone who looks like he could be the perp who happens to live in the area, they also found evidence in the area linking him to that area. But the man hasn't been charged in the crime yet as they i guess are trying to make sure he's the one.
My view on this is split 2 ways. Yes they should've pummelled the shit out of him IF they knew he was charged with it, but he's just a person of interest. For all we know he could just resemble the person, but it could be someone completely different. So what they did was opened themselves up to a SLEW of lawsuits. The proper method would've been to simply restrained the man until police arrived. Now if this was a Wanted man and people saw him out on the streets then by all means whoop his ass, but whooping a person of interest's ass is a bit much.
I also sorta wish and hope the guy that got beat down wasn't the one who commited the crime so i can see how the police dept. proceeds. Only because it would be a complete double standard for the city to allow these assaulters to go free if the guy is convicted and found guilty of the crime; whereas if the guy was to be found out he wasn't involved and the city then prosecutes the guys that assaulted him.
I know i'd probably fill differently if I had kids, I say job well done, for what they did, I personally wouldn't have taken the same course of action they did, but it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/ho...cmpid=15585797
No charges for Phila. rape suspect's attackers
By Troy Graham
Inquirer Staff Writer
A day after angry Kensington residents pummeled a suspect in the abduction and rape of an 11-year-old girl on her way to school, Philadelphia officials had to walk a fine line.
While they would not endorse the street justice doled out to 26-year-old Jose Carrasquillo, neither would they condemn the actions of an impassioned community confronted with a horrific crime.
"I don't condone violence," Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles H. Ramsey said yesterday.
Although "members of the community were very upset over this, and some may have used more force than a trained police officer," none will be charged, he said.
In fact, those who stopped Carrasquillo on Clearfield Street near Lee Street and eventually beat him into the hospital stand to share a $10,000 reward offered by the Fraternal Order of Police.
The money will be disbursed once Carrasquillo is formally charged with the rape and investigators identify those who "stepped up" to detain him, FOP president John McNesby said.
"If we have to pay 10,000 people a dollar each, we'll do that," he said.
Carrasquillo was identified Tuesday as a suspect in the rape, which police called "sadistic," and fliers with his name and picture were distributed. Several males confronted him on the street around 3:15 p.m. Carrasquillo denied being the rapist, but the residents began beating him.
"We just pounded on him because we wanted him arrested," said Kris Torres, a 16-year-old who said he had been part of the initial group that stopped Carrasquillo.
A large crowd gathered and continued beating Carrasquillo, with someone apparently hitting him with a board.
Police arrived to stop the beating and arrest Carrasquillo. His condition at Temple University Hospital was upgraded from critical to stable last night, police said.
Some legal experts said yesterday that the residents put themselves in danger of being charged with assault.
A surveillance camera captured the beating, and several who took part in apprehending Carrasquillo talked to reporters about their roles.
"No one's going to want to prosecute them . . . but as a policy decision, do you have to?" asked local defense lawyer Rocco Cipparone. "Suppose it turns out to be the wrong guy. Then you have an even bigger problem."
But, he added, "on a human, emotional level, myself included . . . if he's the guy who did it, no, I don't feel bad for him."
Nonetheless, "public officials ought to be very careful about what they say that could be construed as condoning or encouraging vigilante justice," said David Rudovsky, a law professor at the University of Pennsylvania.
Mayor Nutter said yesterday that he did not condone "vigilantism out in our streets, but it's indicative of the anger and compassion that many of our citizens have."
"It's a further demonstration that Philadelphians care passionately about this city, about our quality of life, and certainly about our children," he added.
Although Carrasquillo has not been charged in the rape - he is being held on a bench warrant in a previous case - "I'm sure he'll be in court to face these charges," said Lt. Frank Vanore, a Philadelphia police spokesman.
Vanore said residents who confronted crime suspects on the street should "call 911 and let us handle it."
"Obviously, that's what we always encourage. If that person had a gun or a weapon, you could be hurt," he said. "We go through a whole lot of training and we carry guns, and we still have officers killed trying to take people into custody."
Investigators are looking into whether Carrasquillo, whose record includes at least 12 convictions for offenses such as drugs and assault, could be responsible for any other attacks in the area, Vanore said.
Carrasquillo was charged with attempted rape and aggravated assault in 2002, but those charges were withdrawn, according to court records.
The victim of Monday's rape, who underwent surgery after the attack, was released from a hospital yesterday.
The girl is improving, Ramsey said, but "she still has a way to go, both physically and emotionally."
She was abducted shortly after dropping her sister off at a day care center and continuing on to school about 8:20 a.m.
A man approached her on Kensington Avenue, indicated that he had a gun, and forced her to follow him into an alley, where he raped her repeatedly behind a house, police said.
Legal experts said the Kensington residents risked being charged because they could not argue self-defense and may have used more force than necessary to detain Carrasquillo.
McNesby said early yesterday that he did not think residents would be charged because Carrasquillo had tried to run away.
But, he said, the situation would have been different had police administered a similar beating to a fleeing suspect.
"If they were police officers on tape, they'd be arrested," he said.
By Troy Graham
Inquirer Staff Writer
A day after angry Kensington residents pummeled a suspect in the abduction and rape of an 11-year-old girl on her way to school, Philadelphia officials had to walk a fine line.
While they would not endorse the street justice doled out to 26-year-old Jose Carrasquillo, neither would they condemn the actions of an impassioned community confronted with a horrific crime.
"I don't condone violence," Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles H. Ramsey said yesterday.
Although "members of the community were very upset over this, and some may have used more force than a trained police officer," none will be charged, he said.
In fact, those who stopped Carrasquillo on Clearfield Street near Lee Street and eventually beat him into the hospital stand to share a $10,000 reward offered by the Fraternal Order of Police.
The money will be disbursed once Carrasquillo is formally charged with the rape and investigators identify those who "stepped up" to detain him, FOP president John McNesby said.
"If we have to pay 10,000 people a dollar each, we'll do that," he said.
Carrasquillo was identified Tuesday as a suspect in the rape, which police called "sadistic," and fliers with his name and picture were distributed. Several males confronted him on the street around 3:15 p.m. Carrasquillo denied being the rapist, but the residents began beating him.
"We just pounded on him because we wanted him arrested," said Kris Torres, a 16-year-old who said he had been part of the initial group that stopped Carrasquillo.
A large crowd gathered and continued beating Carrasquillo, with someone apparently hitting him with a board.
Police arrived to stop the beating and arrest Carrasquillo. His condition at Temple University Hospital was upgraded from critical to stable last night, police said.
Some legal experts said yesterday that the residents put themselves in danger of being charged with assault.
A surveillance camera captured the beating, and several who took part in apprehending Carrasquillo talked to reporters about their roles.
"No one's going to want to prosecute them . . . but as a policy decision, do you have to?" asked local defense lawyer Rocco Cipparone. "Suppose it turns out to be the wrong guy. Then you have an even bigger problem."
But, he added, "on a human, emotional level, myself included . . . if he's the guy who did it, no, I don't feel bad for him."
Nonetheless, "public officials ought to be very careful about what they say that could be construed as condoning or encouraging vigilante justice," said David Rudovsky, a law professor at the University of Pennsylvania.
Mayor Nutter said yesterday that he did not condone "vigilantism out in our streets, but it's indicative of the anger and compassion that many of our citizens have."
"It's a further demonstration that Philadelphians care passionately about this city, about our quality of life, and certainly about our children," he added.
Although Carrasquillo has not been charged in the rape - he is being held on a bench warrant in a previous case - "I'm sure he'll be in court to face these charges," said Lt. Frank Vanore, a Philadelphia police spokesman.
Vanore said residents who confronted crime suspects on the street should "call 911 and let us handle it."
"Obviously, that's what we always encourage. If that person had a gun or a weapon, you could be hurt," he said. "We go through a whole lot of training and we carry guns, and we still have officers killed trying to take people into custody."
Investigators are looking into whether Carrasquillo, whose record includes at least 12 convictions for offenses such as drugs and assault, could be responsible for any other attacks in the area, Vanore said.
Carrasquillo was charged with attempted rape and aggravated assault in 2002, but those charges were withdrawn, according to court records.
The victim of Monday's rape, who underwent surgery after the attack, was released from a hospital yesterday.
The girl is improving, Ramsey said, but "she still has a way to go, both physically and emotionally."
She was abducted shortly after dropping her sister off at a day care center and continuing on to school about 8:20 a.m.
A man approached her on Kensington Avenue, indicated that he had a gun, and forced her to follow him into an alley, where he raped her repeatedly behind a house, police said.
Legal experts said the Kensington residents risked being charged because they could not argue self-defense and may have used more force than necessary to detain Carrasquillo.
McNesby said early yesterday that he did not think residents would be charged because Carrasquillo had tried to run away.
But, he said, the situation would have been different had police administered a similar beating to a fleeing suspect.
"If they were police officers on tape, they'd be arrested," he said.
My view on this is split 2 ways. Yes they should've pummelled the shit out of him IF they knew he was charged with it, but he's just a person of interest. For all we know he could just resemble the person, but it could be someone completely different. So what they did was opened themselves up to a SLEW of lawsuits. The proper method would've been to simply restrained the man until police arrived. Now if this was a Wanted man and people saw him out on the streets then by all means whoop his ass, but whooping a person of interest's ass is a bit much.
I also sorta wish and hope the guy that got beat down wasn't the one who commited the crime so i can see how the police dept. proceeds. Only because it would be a complete double standard for the city to allow these assaulters to go free if the guy is convicted and found guilty of the crime; whereas if the guy was to be found out he wasn't involved and the city then prosecutes the guys that assaulted him.
I know i'd probably fill differently if I had kids, I say job well done, for what they did, I personally wouldn't have taken the same course of action they did, but it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
un-Touch'd krew
Joined: May 2001
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From: My own level of hell
"Carrasquillo was charged with attempted rape and aggravated assault in 2002, but those charges were withdrawn, according to court records."
Seems to me he got what was owed him regardless. This should happen more often.
Seems to me he got what was owed him regardless. This should happen more often.
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From: Foundry
I'm wondering what this will mean for the rest of the city, if we'll start seeing more acts of vigilantism(sp) or if this'll be just a one off case.
un-Touch'd krew
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 51,774
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From: My own level of hell
But as a citizen who wasn't privy to this information (first time I saw them mention the rape thing) beforehand and just knew police were looking for a suspect in your neighborhood who might've been involved or have information about this crime would you say this beating was warrant?
I'm wondering what this will mean for the rest of the city, if we'll start seeing more acts of vigilantism(sp) or if this'll be just a one off case.
I'm wondering what this will mean for the rest of the city, if we'll start seeing more acts of vigilantism(sp) or if this'll be just a one off case.
Bank robberies and business robberies are also on the rise right now. As things get tighter and people begin to panic this is how it all begins, faith in the authorized protectors (police, courts etc.) has been shaken and the backlash from it will be more noticeable.
If I knew a rapist or child molester lived in the area and a child who had been attacked described them to me as the suspect, I would e inclined to load up and handle business especially if it was my child. In this case though you are also dealing with mob mentality which changes the dynamics of the situation considerably...reason and logic are not a part of mob mentality.
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From: Bethlehem PA
Maybe the police department shouldnt of plastered his picture if he was just " a person of interest" We all know police fk up on cases at times.
If in fact he did do it, he got what he deserves and hopefully gets more beatings afterwards.
If only Charles Bronson was alive. We could of had a Death wish VI
If in fact he did do it, he got what he deserves and hopefully gets more beatings afterwards.
If only Charles Bronson was alive. We could of had a Death wish VI
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From: MI
people should be charged and no way in hell should they get the money
just because he's a person of interest that doesnt mean he still isnt innocent until proven guilty. if they had said this IS the guy who did it fine but they said he was wanted for questioning. now he has a right to sue those people for the assault. its one thing to detain someone under citizens arrest but a complete nother for a group of people to assault him in the street.
just because he's a person of interest that doesnt mean he still isnt innocent until proven guilty. if they had said this IS the guy who did it fine but they said he was wanted for questioning. now he has a right to sue those people for the assault. its one thing to detain someone under citizens arrest but a complete nother for a group of people to assault him in the street.
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From: Foundry
That's my view summed up in 8 words and a smiley.
I am seeing an uptick in robberies and such in the area. I just never thought i'd see this, especially with the whole "No snitching" campaign youths have taken up.
I feel, like you said, we'll start seeing more of this. I just wonder how the police and court system will handle it. I wonder if we'll see things happening to people for example that are selling drugs on the corner.
It will be on the rise in the next few years.
Bank robberies and business robberies are also on the rise right now. As things get tighter and people begin to panic this is how it all begins, faith in the authorized protectors (police, courts etc.) has been shaken and the backlash from it will be more noticeable.
If I knew a rapist or child molester lived in the area and a child who had been attacked described them to me as the suspect, I would e inclined to load up and handle business especially if it was my child. In this case though you are also dealing with mob mentality which changes the dynamics of the situation considerably...reason and logic are not a part of mob mentality.
Bank robberies and business robberies are also on the rise right now. As things get tighter and people begin to panic this is how it all begins, faith in the authorized protectors (police, courts etc.) has been shaken and the backlash from it will be more noticeable.
If I knew a rapist or child molester lived in the area and a child who had been attacked described them to me as the suspect, I would e inclined to load up and handle business especially if it was my child. In this case though you are also dealing with mob mentality which changes the dynamics of the situation considerably...reason and logic are not a part of mob mentality.
I feel, like you said, we'll start seeing more of this. I just wonder how the police and court system will handle it. I wonder if we'll see things happening to people for example that are selling drugs on the corner.