hey, i am facing a problem. one of my trusted buddies is saying all i need is a good alignment for my car to make sure the tread will not be messed up. but first, let me tell you a bit about my setup. i have 15" rims, 205/50/15 falken azenis tires, kyb shocks/struts and a H&R race drop/(2.25Front, 2.0Rear drop). now, a few people are telling me i will need a camber kit eventually, or now. Others are saying that all i need is a good alignment and i should be ok. now, i belive both of these theories, but maybe you guys can help me out. no offense to anyone that would take offense from this. This is normal street driving FYI.
TIA

Rob

 

also, where can i find the steps to do the rear camber washer trick?

 

Rear Washer Shim Kit $15

Consistent washer sizes and new, longer bolts.

 

When your car was lowered -- assuming you did not do it yourself -- they should have done an alignment afterwards. What were your camber settings?

After my car was lowered, I was still in-spec on the driver side (both front and rear); I was in the yellow on the passenger rear, and I was in the red on the passenger front. (All negative camber, of course.)

I did the rear camber washer trick, having read that one washer works out to +0.5 degrees. So that should have moved me from yellow back to in-spec on the passenger rear. I also read that if you add only one or two washers, you can keep the stock bolts; adding more than two washers, you need to purchase longer bolts, so that the bolts don't come out! [This is from the article at team-integra.net, IIRC.]

I purchased stainless-steel washers at Home Depot.

As for the passenger front..... How much are camber kits and installation? Depends on whether you go Ingalls-style or Skunk2-style, and whether you buy name-brand vs. non-name-brand.

Roughly, Skunk2 camber kit with installation works out to about the same price as a set of tires. So do you want to fix the situation with a camber kit, or just ignore it and be able to purchase an additional set of tires?

Right now, I am rotating often, and had inner camber wear after about 15k on my ES100s. Then I rotated across (by re-mounting the tires). Not sure how many miles I will get out of the ES100s.

I am dropped less than you. Tokico package is only 1.5" drop, so my camber settings may be less extreme than yours.

 

Camber kits are a must for how low you dropped your car. I dropped my car 2 inches in front and 1.75 in the back with new tires and the inner walls were worn after around 1500 miles without proper alignment. Also, the handling due to the uneven placement of the tire tread on the pavement could potentially be hazardous. Don't be cheap and not get a camber kit because it jeopardizes yours and others' safety and the frequent tire replacements will cost you more in the long run.

 

What about a more subtle drop? 1.5 inches or less?

 

1.5 inches or less you dont really *need* it but you are off about a degree per inch lower you go, as a rule

and for your rear camber adjustment, as a rule 1 washer = .5 degree of adjustment

 

To find out if you need a camber kit:

Install Suspension
Let it settle
Get an alignment
Read your alignment sheet (generally <-2.5deg and you'll be fine)
Monitor your tire wear closely
Rotate tires frequently (every or every other oil change)

You'll be fine. Im running over -2.5deg without any major issues. And negative camber actually assists in grip.

 

Yep. Simple as that. Wait a few weeks for the springs to settle then get an alignment. Look at the specs and see if the camber is out of recommended specs. If it is then you need a camber kit. A lot of people tell you to get a camber kit without checking to make sure if it was a problem in the first place.

In general a 1.5" or less drop will do without a camber kit but still look at the alignment specs. A previous problem with camber could be augmented by the lowering. No harm in checking.

And yes, negative camber assists with grip since it widens the contact patch with the ground, but don't be led to believe that it's always better because at one point too much will be bad.

 

That goes along with the saying...too much of anything is a bad thing. Its assumed. For our setups, the minor camber most of us encounter isnt a ridiculous amount. I would say a few weeks to settle is also a very liberal amount....maybe a day or two. I wouldnt drive around on an unaligned lowered car for long...if the camber is extreme enough, you'll end up like the guy above who went through his tires in 1500 miles.

The key is to monitor your own wear. No two cars are the same, you cant follow any general rule, be it a 2" drop, -2.5deg camber...you can only use them as a guideline, not as a rule. Pay attention to your own setup, and determine yourself whether or not you need a kit.