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Old 10-24-2006, 08:35 PM
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Old 10-24-2006, 08:36 PM
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Default AutoWeek Review - 1st Drive 2008 Honda FCX



Originally Posted by AutoWeek
Behind the wheel of the Honda FCX hydrogen-powered car is both monumental and a non-event

2008 HONDA FCX
MOTOR: Type—AC synchronous motor with 95 kW max output; 256Nm max torque
FUEL CELL STACK: Proton Exchange Membrane Fuel Cell (PEFC). Output: 100 kW
FUEL: Compressed hydrogen stored in high-pressure tanks; capacity 45 gallons
ENERGY STORAGE:Lithium ion batteries
MAX SPEED: 100 mph
MAX RANGE: 270 miles


Get in Honda’s FCX sedan, go for a ride and as you would expect from any Honda product, there is little drama: Put your foot to the drive-by-wire throttle pedal and off you go. It zips to 100 miles per hour, and it stops just as well. FCX gets a reported 270 miles on a full tank. There is sufficient room in back for two large adults, and its lines are almost avant-garde.

We expect this of a mainstream Honda sedan. Throw in that the FCX is hydrogen powered and filled by a “pump” hooked to your house’s natural gas supply, and even casual observers realize this so-called lack of drama is itself dramatic.

The FCX is a working hydrogen-powered prototype that will be on sale to consumers in 2008, launching a year earlier than anticipated. Corporately, Honda also has a plan to address the cumbersome question of how to build a hydrogen infrastructure, but more on that later.



The FCX was unveiled at the October 2005 Tokyo motor show. The technology has been in development in-house for more than two decades, and the sedan is the next step from Honda in making fuel cell vehicles practical and cool. Engineers repackaged the fuel cell stack into the central transmission hump to go with a conventional fwd motor underhood. Since introduction of their involvement in the technology in 1999, the fuel stack has been reduced in size from cumbersome to comfortable; it went from roughly the size of a small coffee table to that of an overworked CPA’s briefcase, and from horizontal to vertical stacks. More important, the output increased roughly 40 percent every three years to get it to its current output and range. High-pressure storage tanks for the hydrogen lie below and ahead of the trunk, essentially atop the rear axle and out of harm’s way.

The FCX drive at Honda’s test track in Japan was controlled and brief, yet was sufficient to understand that this wasn’t about testing a vehicle, but about the powertrain itself. FCX is quiet, as all hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are, with the only noise a soft purr of its electric motors and wind whistle whipping over mirrors. Torque is immediate: Output comes when you put your foot to the throttle. (Technically, we could still say “put your foot to the gas,” but it is a new gas, indeed.) The ride from pit lane was reminiscent of a golf cart whirring along, except that the engineer riding shotgun, a lab-coated gent identified only as Ken, kept saying “Faster! Faster!” These are our kinds of engineers.

Obviously, Ken was proud of the FCX’s performance. It sped right up to 95 miles per hour on the banked oval, brakes slowed it quickly along the back straight, and then it got back to cruising speed without a hiccup. A driver experiences a type of disassociation; not just because the instrument panel looks to be from the Starship Enterprise, but you expect an engine thrum or transmission whine or the aural click of a shifter going through the gearbox detents. None of those are onboard this sedan; this is driving with Jetson-like propulsion without the benefit of a Vespa scooter burble.
The last several months have seen a surge of alternative propulsion news and vehicles racing to the front pages of the popular press. As General Motors paraded its hydrogen-powered Sequel sport/ute to the world, Honda revealed a brace of environmentally friendly power units, including flexible-fuel vehicles, a 2.2-liter ultra-clean diesel engine, a clean lawnmower engine, and a third generation of the home-based hydrogen filling station.

These boys have been busy.

In fact, this home hydrogen refueling technology separates Honda from the field that continues to think of the gas station model. Using natural gas as its energy source, the Honda Energy Station III is a home-based refueling station that, through a series of chemical processes, converts natural gas to hydrogen. Not only will HES III, as it is known, fill your car with the hydrogen it needs (in a low-pressure environment that ensures it fills to the top), it also provides electricity and heat for an average-size household. The HES III can also be a backup power-generating system during power outages by using hydrogen in its storage tank to power an internal fuel cell. This gives off as much as five kilowatts of power in normal and emergency conditions, and does so while reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Yes: Honda has a free-standing solar-powered HES system available for commercial application, too. Can you say turn-key infrastructure?

Listening to Honda president and CEO Takeo Fukui talk about the emerging technology, you sense an honesty about a corporate need to do right for the environment. There is weight to the burden—with some 21 million made annually, Honda is the world’s largest manufacturer of internal combustion engines. How many of those will be replaced by hydrogen-powered fuel cells, only time will tell.
Press conference

The following is a presentation made to nearly a dozen U.S. automotive journalists on Sept. 23, by Takeo Fukui, Honda Motor president and CEO. This was an opportunity to see the breadth of new and future technology Honda is bringing to market in an effort to be environmentally friendlier. Technologies included clean diesel, bio-technology for the advancement of cellulose that could be turned into ethanol and, the granddaddy of them all, a hydrogen-powered fuel cell car.

“Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much for taking the time to make the long trip to visit us here at the Tochigi R&D Center.

More than 35 years ago I began my career at Honda R&D as part of a team creating a cleaner-burning engine. These efforts led to the Civic CVCC, the first vehicle in the world to meet the 1970 U.S. Clean Air Act based solely on engine performance. I was lucky to be an engineer at Honda at such a challenging and exciting time in the history of the auto industry.

Today, in the face of so many environmental issues, I think it is again a very challenging and exciting time for our engineers at Honda. So, we invited you here today, in the hope of enhancing your understanding of our current research and development activities… and our plans for the future.

Honda is the world’s largest engine manufacturer, reaching some 21 million customers each year. Thus, we see it as our responsibility to minimize the impact of our activities on the environment, so that the convenience and pleasure of mobility can be passed onto future generations. Based on this commitment, in May 2006, we announced global carbon-dioxide reduction goals… both for our products and production activities.

To attain these objectives, we must continue to refine the engine and powertrain technologies that are fundamental to Honda’s success. This continues to be a key focus of our wide-ranging research and development initiatives. Today, it is our pleasure to introduce to you several promising technologies. We will continue applying Honda innovation in developing new products that will greatly exceed the expectations of our customers.

Among the technologies we will present today is the first diesel engine to attain a level of environmental performance equal to a gasoline engine. This new clean diesel engine features a revolutionary new catalytic converter… and a simple, compact design that makes it ideal for passenger cars. Just as the CVCC engine revolutionized the clean performance of gasoline engines… today, we’re leading the way to cleaner diesel engines.

Honda has always believed that fuel cell technology is vital, as it holds the promise of helping solve both environmental and energy challenges. We continue to make progress toward the large-scale introduction of fuel cell vehicles, which many see as the ultimate in clean mobility for the future.

Today, you will test drive a functional version of the FCX Concept vehicle first displayed at the 2005 Tokyo Motor Show. This vehicle features our new, more advanced fuel cell system. And I am delighted to announce today that in 2008… one year earlier than originally planned… we will introduce a new fuel cell vehicle in Japan and the U.S. based on this concept model. In addition to its environmental performance, I think you will find that this new vehicle will be as fun to drive as any Honda. Honda is also engaged in projects focusing on the production of hydrogen fuel… including one that uses thin film solar cells developed by Honda. With a fuel cell vehicle running on hydrogen generated with solar panels, no carbon dioxide is emitted either in producing the fuel or operating the vehicle. This is the ultimate scenario.

Also, as we announced last week, we have achieved exciting advances in biotechnology research. Our new technology helps increase yields in bio-ethanol production… by using the stalks and leaves of plants that would normally be discarded. This improves the potential for wider application of ethanol-powered vehicles and for further CO2 reductions. We plan to maintain this comprehensive focus on both vehicles and fuels in our ongoing research and development.

Finally, at Honda, we remain committed to advancing internal combustion engine technology. So, today, we will present some exciting new advances in the technology that powers the majority of the products we sell today… the gasoline engine. Specifically, we will present new control technologies that further advance fuel efficiency. Overall… you will have a number of test drive opportunities.

In research and development, Honda places the highest priority on initiative and innovation…always setting the bar high. As we continue to develop the environmental technologies that are so critical to the world’s future, our efforts will extend beyond environmental performance. We will always strive to make mobility a great joy. We will deliver on two traditional Honda promises: to lead the industry in innovation and advanced technology… and to provide people with vehicles that are fun to drive. I hope your experience here today will give you a sense of our commitment and the promise of future technologies.
Honda’s Next Generation Power Plant Technologies
Honda’s efforts to clean up the internal combustion engine are many and varied. As maker of some 21 million engines annually—from snow blowers to motorcycles to cars, personal watercraft and lawnmowers—Honda is looking at different, cleaner approaches to the technology. Below are just some of the technologies the company is pursuing.

Next-Generation Diesel Engine

Honda has developed a next-generation diesel engine that reduces exhaust gas emissions to a level equal to a gasoline engine. The diesel engine employs a revolutionary nitrogen oxides catalytic converter that enables a reduction in NOx emissions sufficient to meet stringent U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Tier II Bin 5 emission requirements. Honda plans to introduce this diesel engine in the U.S. within three years.

Fuel Cell-Powered Vehicle

Honda has held a demonstration drive of the next generation FCX Concept fuel cell vehicle, an earlier version of which was shown at the 2005 Tokyo Motor Show. The FCX Concept features a compact, high-efficiency Honda FC Stack. Limited marketing of a fuel cell vehicle begins in 2008 in Japan and the U.S.

Flexible Fuel Vehicle

Honda has developed a flexible fuel vehicle system that enables gasoline engine-based power plants to operate on either 100-percent ethanol or a wide range of ethanol-gasoline fuel mixtures. In late 2006, Honda plans to begin sales of FFVs in Brazil, where bio-ethanol has gained popularity.

Advanced Gasoline Engine

Honda has further improved its VTEC (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control System) technology with the development of the Advanced VTEC engine, which provides high performance along with outstanding fuel economy and lower emissions. The new engine combines continuously variable valve lift and timing control with the continuously variable phase control of VTC (Variable Timing Control) to achieve a world-leading performance and a 13 percent improvement in fuel efficiency. Honda plans to release a production vehicle equipped with the new engine within three years.
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Old 10-25-2006, 05:21 AM
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Default Full Test: 2 Generation Honda FCX (1st Production Hydrogen Car)

This is the 2nd generation of Honda's hydrogen effort. Honda currently has some 50 leases including on to a family in California. This is also the first hydrogen powered passenger car to receive both EPA certification and have been successfully crash tested.

Originally Posted by Edmunds Inside Line
Cruisin' the hydrogen highway



10-12-2006

Even as Honda plows forward with plans to be the first to introduce a fuel-cell production car, I found myself strangely uninterested in this alternative-energy vehicle. It seemed like an outdated look into the future, like finding a back issue of Popular Mechanics that said flying cars would be the next big thing.

Then one Sunday, the odd-looking, zero-emissions 2005 Honda FCX was delivered to my house. It sat there while I wrestled with how to fill it up with hydrogen on the weekend. I began to view it as a giant pain, an albatross that would never be more than a footnote in the history of transportation.



But then I drove it.

After about 20 seconds of beeps, whirs and strange groans, the display panel flashed "Ready to Drive." I slid it into gear and pulled onto the hydrogen highway. Within a mile, I knew what I would say in my review: Make the cost of this car competitive, make hydrogen stations readily available, and I'd be content to drive one of these babies from here on out.



But huge questions loom: Can you manufacture hydrogen inexpensively? Can you ship and store it safely? Answers to those questions are being hotly investigated by many more qualified minds than mine. And they are questions that will need to be answered before Honda's production vehicle, to be released in two years, can be more than just a pilot program. All I can tell you about is how it feels to drive this car. Cut back to me driving the FCX and push in for a tight shot revealing a smile on my face.

Are fuel cells coming of age?
The first usable fuel-cell cars began to appear on the roads in 2002, but they were limited in range and wildly expensive. The 2003 Honda FCX was the first hydrogen-powered fuel-cell car to be certified by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) and the U.S. EPA in July 2002. The 2005 FCX received a Zero-Emission Vehicle (ZEV) rating by CARB and an EPA Tier-2 Bin 1 rating, the lowest possible national emissions rating.

The 2005 FCX — which uses the same body as the Honda EV+ electric car — contains the first Honda-produced fuel-cell stack. It's quicker, has a longer range and gets better fuel-efficiency than earlier prototypes that lacked this power plant. Honda said the two primary goals achieved by the technology in this car were "to increase the fuel cell's environmental adaptability to a wide range of climates, and to make mass production more viable."

This second-generation FCX is a prototype worth more than a million dollars. It is capable of starting at temperatures as low as minus-4-degrees Fahrenheit and has a range of about 190 miles on a tank of hydrogen. The Honda Fuel Cell Stack PEMFC (Proton Exchange Membrane Fuel Cell) delivers 107 horsepower via an electric motor. Additionally, it uses a regenerative braking system similar to what is used in hybrid cars, which converts the kinetic energy produced by the brakes into electrical energy and stores it in an ultra capacitor (no, not the "flux capacitor," from Back to the Future) which functions a bit like a battery. As a result, fuel economy is equivalent to a car getting an EPA city/highway rating of 62/51 miles per gallon of gas (57 mpg combined).

Fuel cell — a simple concept
The theory behind fuel-cell cars is simple enough. Hydrogen, which is stored under pressure in a tank, is mixed with oxygen from the air to produce an electrochemical reaction. It's a bit like having a battery that never goes dead as long as you keep adding hydrogen. Once the electrical power is generated, it can be used to turn a motor that propels the car. Power delivery is augmented by regenerative braking. In essence, driving a fuel-cell car is very similar to driving an electric car — except a fuel-cell car has a tailpipe from which water vapor is the only emission.

While development of the fuel-cell stack seems to have taken a big step forward, the infrastructure supporting the car is lagging severely behind. When we needed a refill for our test car, we had to take the FCX back to Honda's Torrance headquarters. The next time we were nearing empty, Honda arranged a fill-up only three blocks away from Edmunds.com's offices at the City of Santa Monica department of public works. While 25 hydrogen stations are listed as being within 100 miles of Los Angeles, only one is open to the public. The others are either still in the planning phase or are for private vehicle fleets.

Fill 'er up (with hydrogen)
The refueling process was similar to that used to refill compressed natural gas vehicles (CNG) except that, due to the extreme volatility of hydrogen, a ground connector is attached. The ground connection also reads information about the car's operation, including the temperature of the tank, so the maximum amount of hydrogen can be pumped into it.



The Department of Energy sets a benchmark price for hydrogen at $5 per kilogram (a kilogram is roughly equivalent to a gallon of gasoline). However, depending on how hydrogen is manufactured — often it is made as a byproduct of natural gas refinement — the price could vary significantly. Currently, there are stations selling hydrogen for as little as $3.60 a kilogram. Given that the fuel economy of the FCX is nearly twice that of a typical gas car, this makes the price per mile driven more economical.

Honda is planning a Home Energy Station (HES), an integrated module that runs off a household's natural-gas supply to generate hydrogen vehicle fuel. The HES could also provide heat and electricity back to the house.

Unique driving experience
Step on the accelerator of the FCX and you get instantaneous power. There is none of the wind-up, no climbing a torque curve as in a gasoline-powered car. All the power is right there, whenever you want it (and can find hydrogen). Since it uses an electric motor, there is no need for a transmission. It's like being directly connected to a silent but powerful source of energy. It feels effortless: a pleasant feeling of freedom. Furthermore, since you know you are only leaving behind a trail of water vapor, you feel downright virtuous.



Because our test track is over 150 miles from home, however, we had to tow the Honda to the facility. Once there the front-drive FCX delivered a rather pokey 13 seconds from zero to 60 mph. Despite that ultimately slow acceleration number, the FCX delivered a strong 0-30-mph time (3.7 seconds) and had plenty of acceleration for brisk around-town driving. On the highway, it easily cruised at 70 mph and offers a top speed of 93 mph.



Our test driver found the two-door car's handling to be poor, reaching a slalom speed of only 60.4 mph. This could be because of the added weight of the fuel-cell powertrain, which pushes it up to a hefty 3713 pounds. The brake pedal provided plenty of reliable feedback, and stopping distances were average at 135 feet from 60 to 0 mph.

A very enjoyable car
The EV+ body that is now used by the FCX looks a little odd, but the interior configuration provides a desirable, tall driving position. This requires a significant step up to get inside. If you think to examine the car's configuration, it's apparent there is at least 1 foot of storage space between the bottom of the car and the interior floorboards, space that is used to store the electronics. Creating a vehicle with these dimensions could pose a problem to future production fuel-cell cars.



One nice touch is the unusually good legroom and visibility for rear-seat passengers. The seats throughout are very comfortable, and all interior features are of the usual high quality expected of Honda. It was a smart move to make this cutting-edge car so ordinary and pleasing in every other way.



Our test vehicle had a navigation system, a very useful feature when searching for out-of-the-way hydrogen fuel stations. The nav screen moves up to reveal a CD player beneath and a slot for memory cards. All the climate controls are simple and straightforward. We particularly enjoyed the attractive and cool blue gauges that flicker constantly to show the inner workings of the fuel-cell system. Our eyes were often drawn to the "miles to empty" gauge, which seem oddly low-tech given its extremely important role.



But what of safety?
Many people who rode in the fuel-cell car were concerned about the rear-positioned hydrogen tank, perhaps because of the horrific images of the Hindenburg explosion in 1937. However, Honda said the fuel tank in the FCX has been extensively tested — once it was crash tested in a collision with a train — and it never ruptured. Furthermore, hydrogen is extremely light and, if a leak occurred, the vapor would rapidly rise and quickly dissipate. This is actually safer than a normal car which, if it leaked would leave pools of flammable gasoline under it.

Where does this road lead?
Honda admitted that the future of fuel-cell cars is uncertain and there is no guarantee that this type of car will ever make a practical contribution to meeting our transportation needs. The platinum fuel-cell stack is expensive and very labor-intensive to assemble. Notwithstanding, Honda has set an admirable example by putting 15 FCXs on the road, mainly with public agencies in California, and has another five cars that are used for Honda's internal fleet.

Honda is also pressing forward with plans to introduce a production fuel-cell vehicle slated to go on sale in two years. The cost of this production vehicle, currently named the FCX Concept, has not yet been set or even estimated. And clearly, to make it practical would require the completion of California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's Hydrogen Highway. This, and many other things about hydrogen fuel-cell cars, are still very much in the planning — and dreaming — phase.



Edmunds.com Editor in Chief Karl Brauer says:
After a short spin in Honda's fuel-cell car I confirmed that it was very similar to GM's EV1 (a car I drove back in 1997). Not surprising when you consider they are both, essentially, electric cars. But where the EV1 burns electricity stored in batteries, the FCX burns electricity produced from hydrogen. The car has plenty of pep (electric motors offer great torque) and the car's driving dynamics are, thankfully, very Honda-like. Great steering weight and road feel, comfy seats with just the right blend of cushion crunch and support, and logical ergonomics in terms of switchgear placement. The FCX is, of course, whisper quiet — except for a few strange, subtle whirs and whines as the hydrogen is processed. And at one point it did hit me, "Hmm, the only emission this car is creating is water vapor..." which is pretty cool.

There's room for four, and the total range is about 190 miles, though that can change somewhat based on how it's driven (just like in the EV1). If there's a downside, it's the refueling hassles. There's actually a station in Santa Monica, right near Edmunds.com. But even then, Honda had to give the station advance notice that we were coming by before we could "fill up." And every time we went somewhere we had to keep the range/refueling issue in mind. We also had to use a flatbed to get it to our testing facility, as there was no way it would make it there and back.

But I can say this with confidence: If the price was right and a fueling station was near my house, I'd happily replace the wife's Malibu with one of these. Maybe someday...

Inside Line Editor in Chief Richard Homan says:
It's always a hoot to drive around in the future, or at least in one of the vehicles that may become the future. With the FCX fuel-cell vehicle, Honda has put its stamp on one version of a possible future in transportation. As short a while back as the most recent turn of the century, experts were insisting that fuel-cell transportation was an exciting idea, but one for a distant future that appeared to be decades away.

Honda, Mercedes-Benz and a few other companies disagreed, pumping budgets and engineering into the possibility of a fuel-cell-powered tomorrow. (Sorry for all the cliches, here, but I'm on a roll.) Now the Honda FCX has come to our offices, and even been tested. Actually tested. And that's a level of techno cool and manufacturer confidence that I refuse to get over.

In some ways, this is just another way of doing an electric car, with the same quirky quietude and servo-gurgling during its morning exercises and great on-throttle tip-in and limited range. I don't know if the FCX will take its place on the nostalgia shelf like plug-in electric cars have, waiting for the great technological leap forward. But as a curious cat and a realistic optimist about the future, I'm just happy to see a company investing in the future and checking in with the present to see how they're doing with it.

Engineering Editor Jason Kavanagh says:
The future doesn't seem like such a bad place. By no means a one-off lab exile, our Honda FCX tester with a few thousand miles on the clock was equipped like, and drove essentially as, a new car. From the nav system to the air-conditioning, all the way down to the standard-issue owner's manual in the glovebox, the FCX is a full-on Honda production car.

With only one exception: It's not for the general public yet. Not because it doesn't drive well, because it does. Just wait a few seconds at key-on and drive away on a wave of electron-induced torque in utter silence, save for a high-pitched compressor whine. The seats are comfy, and the interior completely normal. The only clues to its dramatically atypical means of energy storage are a high step-up in the cabin and a few zoomy gauges in the instrument cluster.

So why not sell it to Joe Public, then? Try finding compressed hydrogen on a weekend. Turns out that, like the rest of the business world, the people who sell you the stuff don't work weekends. Even during business hours, finding compressed hydrogen is a chore requiring forethought and patience. Combine this with a driving range half that of a gasoline-powered commuter car and dashed were my cackle-infused aspirations of driving the carpool lane solo across Southern California.

Inevitably, fuel cells will shrink, range will increase and performance will improve. All great stuff, but today's FCX proves that it's not the vehicles that are the limiting factor, but the means to refill them.

Last edited by jaje; 10-25-2006 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 10-25-2006, 05:35 AM
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Default Preview: 2008 Honda FCX

Car & Driver Review of 2008 Honda FCX

Originally Posted by Car&Driver
Behind the wheel of Honda’s latest fuel-cell concept car.

BY BARRY WINFIELD, September 2006

If anyone can get fuel-cell technology developed at an affordable price level, Honda looks to be in the running. The company is on its third version of a fuel-cell powertrain, and each one has bumped the performance and range upward, with decreased size and improved efficiency. In the latest form, Honda’s FCX features a new V Flow fuel-cell stack with a claimed power-to-volume density increase of 50 percent, and a power-to-weight density improvement of 67 percent. The stack is 20-percent smaller and 30-percent lighter than the current version. The total powertrain mass has been reduced by almost 400 pounds, and the output has jumped from 86 to 100 kilowatts.

The system is also now more tidily packaged, with the fuel-cell stack residing neatly in the car’s central tunnel. That packaging improvement is possible because the stack orientation has changed; now the hydrogen and water flow through the system vertically instead of horizontally. That facilitates faster water evacuation, which is a key to efficient stack operation. The system now operates at a much lower temperature, capable of starting up in ambient temperatures as low as minus 20-degrees F. Coupled to a new lithium-ion storage battery and a 127-horsepower AC synchronous motor, the energy source provides a range of up to 350 miles, according to Honda.

At Honda’s Tochigi proving ground, where we drove the new FCX, the only evidence of all this advancement is a futuristic but spacious vehicle that moves off briskly with a whisper of sound, accelerates fairly quickly to highway cruising speeds, and continues on to a top speed of 100 mph. Steering and ride quality seemed to be typical of Honda products, with no sense of large weight or unwieldiness in the admittedly limited confines of a high-speed oval. With all the fuss made about fuel-cell technology, it’s easy to forget that vehicles using this energy source are just electric vehicles at heart, with no exciting exhaust note or interesting transmissions to light the enthusiast’s flame. Still, having 189 pound-feet of torque available from rest isn’t a bad thing, and nor is a quiet powertrain or the all-important zero-emissions operation. Honda is planning to market a vehicle based on this FCX concept in limited numbers in 2008 in Japan and the U.S. Pricing and/or lease arrangements have yet to be decided.

















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Old 10-25-2006, 06:36 PM
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Pssh... 6mpg! Cool looking car!
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:29 AM
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I may have missed it, but what is the cost of fuel and mpci (or equivalent mpg)?
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Old 10-31-2006, 08:04 AM
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That thing is not attractive at all...
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Old 11-01-2006, 10:29 AM
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I absolutely hate the way that thing looks.
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Old 11-07-2006, 05:43 PM
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looks like a prius on steroids
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Old 11-10-2006, 07:27 PM
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I'm glad to see something besides fossil fuel cars being developed. They may look ugly or perform so-so now, but that's just the baby steps of development. With time they could be much improved. Even if the performance never improves, the niche for potential commuter use is undeniable.

My friend's Insight is really impresive. He gets a consistent 71 mpg out of that thing, and occasionally hits 90 mpg. If anybody can come up with a well-engineered hydrogen car, Honda can.
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