Poor man's ITR....
 

I drive an '00 Si (with a b16a2) and my friend just offered me a b18c1 block for practically nothing, he owes me a favor...

so my question is how much better will the 1.8L bock be? i know there is no replacement for displacement, blah blah..... but how much better will it be?

Is it a difficult swap? Does the b16 Head bolt right up? and how about the electrical systems? seems like since i'm keeping the head i shouldnt have to change anything, cept maybe the ecu. what ecu is better? i was planning on getting hondata anyway so would i need a new ecu then?

and one last thing. i have heard the ITR is not 'the best' car to turbo, since this is almost the same setup would it suck for turbo too? i have heard the b16 is good for turbo, so if i am getting turbo should would swapping the block be a waste of time?

i know its alot of questions but take a stab at whatever,
thanks

Increased displacement means more torque. The B18C also has a block girdle reinforcing the bottom end(the B16 doesn't need one with its near-perfect r/s ratio).

The B16 head should bolt right up, and the sensors should be the same if it's an OBD-II B18C1 block, but I'm not sure about an OBD-I block. You should be fine with your P2T ECM for now if you plan on going Hondata anyway.

If you just swap the B18C1 block in as-is, with the p72 stock pistons, that puts your C/R at about 9.8:1, which is fine for boost with good tuning(which you'll have with the Hondata). If you put your pr3 pistons on the B18C1 rods, your C/R will be around 11.11:1, which is a bit high, especially for anything but moderate boost.

If you want some more power out of your B18C1 block, you can put an LS crank and LS rods in. That would give you the extra stroke and torque of the LS, and would push your displacement to about 1834cc. If you ran the B18C1 p72 pistons, your C/R would be about 9.98:1, slightly higher than with the GSR crank and rods, but you'll still be able to boost well on them with proper tuning. With this setup you'll basically have all the benefits(LS stroke and torque) of an LS-VTEC setup without any of the weaknesses(poor oiling, no block girdle), and you can still boost it.

If you're getting a B18C1 block for close to nothing, you might as well swap it in. If you don't feel like going with the GSR block/LS crank setup, at least run the GSR block. I don't think 210cc more displacement is a waste of time at all.

is there anything this guy doesnt know??????????

i think not.


first up, how much would an ls crank and ls rods run me? are they hard to get? and how "built" would my engine be? in other words how much could i boost on it, provided an adequit fuel system, etc?

one final thing... is it really bad to turbo ITR? i've just heard it numerous times. and i dont understand why a b18/b16 would be good to turbo if the ITR wasnt.

If you want to pick up a used LS crank and rods, they shouldn't cost all that much. My guess would be a couple hundred max. With a stock B series bottom end, and good tuning, you can run up to 14lbs of boost. If you want to be more conservative, I would stay around 10lbs if you're not sure about your tuning. If you want to run forged internals, which would be a good idea if you're going to have the bottom end apart anyway, you would definitely be good for 14lbs of boost on stock sleeves with good tuning. We're talking large injectors, high-volume intank pump, a good standalone, and dyno time. Again if you're unsure about your tuning, keep your boost level more conservative. Of course the next step is ductile iron sleeves if you want to run high boost. It's not bad to turbocharge an ITR, but there are more hurdles to get over. ITR cams have a lot of overlap, which is counterproductive to boost, but you can just swap some GSR cams in and be fine. ITR pistons also produce a higher C/R which, when mixed with boost, is more prone to detonating. To remedy that without having to open up the bottom end, you could just use a thicker headgasket to lower C/R a bit. In any case, tuning is the key. Some people run moderate boost on completely stock ITR's with absolutely no problems.

Inspyral is the man. The ITR has an insane compression ratio, that is why it is not as boost friendly as the B16A or the B18C1.

Ahhh i dont know why i just assumed the ITR uses the same cams as b16 :doh:

i read on another post someone saying that around 9:1 is a really good compression ratio for boosting, is that right?
So if a b18 with ls crank and rods has a ratio of 9.8:1 wouldnt i want a thicker head gasket to try to get it down a little more? Is there a disadvantage to this?

Oh yeah, would a 97 gsr have an OBD-II block?

sorry for all the questions......

Yes a 97 would be an obd2 block, although the sensors relating to obd2 are on the intake manifold, tb. If you're gonna run stock LS internals in your GSR, at least get some ARP rod bolts...the stock LS bolts won't hang at 8k rpm, especially under boost.

If I was in your position I'd do this:

- Put the B16 pistons in the B18C block
- ITR intake manifold & throttle
- skunk2 stage 2 cams, skunk2 springs & retainers
- adjustable cam gears
- A'PEXi V-AFC
- couple hours on the dyno getting everything dialed in

That'd probably manage to put down 180 hp to the wheels, which is like 45 hp added over stock. Not bad at all, especially for the amount of money you'd spend.

Skip the Hondata, you'll have to convert your wiring over to OBD-I which is a pain in the ass. If you want a fully programmable ECU then go with an AEM EMS. As long as there's no boost involved the V-AFC is a more than adequate solution.

People used to swear by 8:1 C/R for boost back before there were good standalone units around. Nowadays, I'ts all about tuning. There are those that run over 10:1 C/R with boost, but if you want to have more room for error, it wouldn't hurt to run a thicker headgasket. You shouldn't have problems with a 9.8:1 C/R, but yeah, 9.1:1 would leave more room for tuning mistakes.

a new twist....

my friend just told me the tranny is mine with the block, i didnt really think about the tranny cause im a ****in noob.
Do i have my choice, or will i have to use the gsr tranny with the gsr block? If i do have a chioce which would be better? I was thinking the Si transmision has shorter gears, which i like cause i'm trying to get my car to be a beast off the line....

a "beast" lol, its still a civic.........

anyways i'll shut up now and bask in your endless knowledge