hey guys, this is for some of you more experienced tuners out there.

I was wondering if you would throw somethin together or get this thread rollin with some basic info. Not partial to any software out there or anything like that but the basic Rule of Thumb ideas to go by. Maybe some different equations that might help some of us get started with our tuning.

I've noticed that the Engine Tech and Tuning portion of HAN isn't very active & i'd really like to see that increase especially since i see a lot of people on here building their vehicle & really lacking in the tuning area, which can be very harmful to their investments.

Anyone that would like to contribute some useful info here will be appreciated by all i'm sure.

Thanks

 

It's all going to be dependent upon what they are tuning and what they are using as a power adder (if any).
You tune a turbocharged motor differently then a N/A motor, time A/F ratio,etc are all going to be different. Each motor is going to be different too, some motors like to run richer then other motors. For example h22a's like a richer air/fuel ratio then say a b16a (on boost). I supose you could type up a "general" guidline, but as far as tuning tips goe it's going to have to stay generic to be helpfull.

Maybe make sections.
tuning forced induction basics:
Tuning for all motor power basics:
Stuff like that.

 

I'd love to start--
I've been tuning for alittle over a year now with a buddy of mine who got me into it.. But we'll start with some of the basics...

Understanding The Air to fuel ration setup...
Your perfect idling AFR should be between 14.4-14.8

Going above 14AFR will result in running lean...
Going below 14AFR will result in running rich...

Lets start with a Normal Setup.. A guy in a Civic has a B18C1 swap with I/H/E
Running a stock p72 ecu.
K well first off remember Every motor reacts differently so while tuning with a wideband you should see threw a few 2nd or 3rd gear pulls where the AFR is at.. remember honda designed these cars for MAX Gas mileage so it might be jumpy.. I've found after tuning MANY n/a cars that around 12.5 to 12.7 is a great AFR..Fooling with w/e tuning setup most now and days use chrome, Uberdata or hondata.. i use all 3 but my car is tuned with hondata..anyway..You'll basically teach yourself as you go.. you never running run too lean cause thats VERY dangerous..

TO tune PERFECTLY
Set your vtec to a high point you'll never reach say..8500k or even disable.
Why??? you might ask.. this is to tune the low cam(no vtec) Tuning this is a very important part in your low end, Seeing where vtec should pick up the slack and actually learning how your motor flows..
I would suggest doing what i do.. Doing small pulls in 2nd gear starting at 2k and goin to 4.. Do a couple of pulls and see where it lands you in the AFR and then go from there.. like i should anything below 12 is WAY too rich for a n/a motor.. and anything higher then 13.1 is too lean.. i'd suggest this setup
--2nd gear pulls
-- 2k-4k Tune
-- 4500k - 6000k Tune
-- 6500k - 8 or redline and tune..

After tuning your low cam do a full run threw 3rd gear to see where your AFR jumps.. look for spikes that might show the car losing power or running too lean...Also something to look for.. and just alittle funny out point... When you can chip 2nd without vtec your well on your way to making your car very quick...
Now lets engadge that Godly vtec.. set it to 4000k and make sure your secondaires if your running a p72 ecu are engadging around the area of 5k..
Lets do a few pulls in the High cam like we did on the low cam side.. and this away both maps High and Low cam will be tuned.. lets go into 2nd gear for the finally setup...
Determining where VTEC engagdes.. watch the AFR meter and the rpms and have whoever driving nail it in 2nd and watch where the car stops pulling i've seen cars stop pulling at around 4800k, some 5100k..
If you can't really tell.. Put your vtec somewhere in the NORMAL setups...
i'll even help and point them out...
4475,4800,5100,5200,5400,5700 Try some of those points on determining where you should set your vtec..
------------- Another IMPORTANT THING OF VTEC ENGADEMENT-----------
When Vtec is engaging you SHOULD NOT FEEL IT!!!!!!!!!!
It should be a smooth transaction to high cam, if you feel vtec that means its engaging too late and you could have been making more power before it engaged...you would think that having vtec engage should throw you a whiplash it shouldn't.. your losing power..

Just a few thoughts from my tuner experince.. if you have any question more then happy to help aim me at dunndeal69 or email at turboacuraGSR@Aol.com

 

air/fuel ratios definitely differ from setup to setup. I just recently tuned an LS where the guy had dome some very extensive modifications to his head and combustion chambers. This resulted in the car not wanting to idle consistently at anything less than 11:1.

VTEC engagement (when you have a vtec motor) is best determined on the dyno... make a pull with a high engagement point and then do the same with a low engagement point. Overlay the 2 torque curves and set the engagement at the point where they cross.

One thing to note is that a properly setup fuel table is an exact reflection of the shape of your torque curve... if you tune a motor at WOT with a dead-flat a/f ratio throughout the entire pull, and then you graph your fuel map, it will mimic the torque curve shown by the dyno. A fuel map is basically a map of the volumetric effieciency of your motor. Many standalone systems, when plotting 3d graphs of fuel tables, label the axis by: rpm, load and VE. Something to think about...

Consider fuel nothing more than thermal management. An ideal a/f ratio for all load points is 14.7:1 (on gasoline). This does not work in the real world because a lot of heat is generated by a motor. This heat, if not properly managed, will melt pistons, etc.. The extra fual over 14.7:1 is used to absorb the heat from the combustion process to keep the motor from melting itself.

There is very little (if any) power to be had from general a/f ratio tuning. You just want to setup the fuel table so that you have enough fuel to properly suport the car at all possible load and rpm breakpoints. Power is made in with ignition timing. Motors are also destroyed by improperly tuned ignition timing. The goal is to measure the torque output of your motor and advance the ignition timing until just before MBT (or until you see knock on the plugs from insufficient fuel/insufficient fuel octane rating/etc.) This can only properly be determined on the dyno. It is absolutely essential to read spark plugs very often when tuning. I pull a spark plug after nearly every single dyno pull to check for detonation, etc.. The spark plug is your window into the motor's combutstion event.

Typically, I setup a conservative basemap (with conservative ignition timing) and tune a car on the street first (when possible with a streetcar). The street tuning is there to basically dial-in idle, free-revs and partial throttle (for gas mileage and overall driveability), cranking tables, corrections, etc. Depending on the setup, I'll do some WOT pulls to dial in the a/f ratio where I want it (to save time on the dyno). I only make small fuel table adjustments on the dyno, if needed.

 

good ADVICE GOOD JOB!.. my tuning is only done on the street never tuned on a dyno before only my friend has but good advice man.

 

this is a good thread...im about to tune my car and i've learned sooo much in the last 2 hours

 

This thread is awesome! That's such great info, thanks for posting. Can anybody else comment/add/further explain?

I've just learned a lot in the last 15 mins.

You can take this post as a bump - more tuners please post!

 

I can tell u from some more info, when advancing the timing while street tuning, after you get your low cam set, i suggest u do this one cam lope at a time btw, do the low cam first setting a good AFR for your car 12.9 -13.1 would be great for all motor and what not.. Then start advacing the timing around 2000, all the way up to where ur Low cam starts to drop off, advanced about 2-5 degrees make a run, if ur fuel starts to run lean, thats good ur burning it and making power, so add some more fuel and advance alittle more, make sure to listen to your engine as you go, if u hear a tick back it off 2 degrees and ur done with your advancing i'm sure its your owning thing u really gotta learn and use but thats some more good advice i've been using while tuning.

 

Ok,I have a questions. I have B16A head with B20B block and OBD-0 ECU. My modification so far is I/H/E, fuel pressure regulator, MSD SCI ignition and Crane Coil PS91. If I tune it correctly using say hondata, will this make a big difference in power/performance then the standard OBD-0 ECU? thanks.

 

Of course it will.. if ur able to do it, u should tune each time u get a different mod thats the ideal idea.. however most people can't and if u notice a different in power as you've done your b20vtec and have added these mods i promise u, it will be a night and day difference..btw keep your fuel pressure regulator stock settings.. dont adjust it its the worst move every you could do..Tuning with hondata would be ideal as well, i use crome on my car and have made great power...just tune the way you've learned from this fourm and keep us updated, it'd be wise to get a obd- 0 to obd-I conversion harrness cause you can only use turboedit(a tuning program) on obd0 cars its just like crome but not as good.. i'd suggest getting a conversion harness for obd-I and go from there.