fbjunkie53

1988 Accord LXi, 209K. Starts fine in the morning, but starts to stall at stoplights after about 20min of city driving. Able to keep it running by holding brake and and throttle at same time. Works fine during open road driving. When I shut off the engine for a few minutes, it won't start unless I let it sit for a couple of hours.

When I first experienced this, I had a heavy smell of fuel when I tried to start the engine and found leaky fuel injectors. I replaced the injectors and the fuel smell went away, but it's still hard to start when warm. I have also replaced the fuel filter and the fuel relay that's behind the dash. Still no help.

Took it to a mechanic for diagnosis and he couldn't find anything wrong either.

I'm out of ideas. Help?????

WEENUSS

check the timing belt had an 89 that was doing same thing minus the fuel smell.Took 6 diff. mechanics to figure it out

fbjunkie53

Timing belt???? What's the reasoning behind that? Or just PFM?

idol4232003

when u say it won't start...does it even start cranking or just plain dead? has it had a tune-up in the recent past? i think i read somewhere about issues with the main relay during hot days. sorry i dont have anything specific...just throwing out some possible things to look into...

fbjunkie53

It cranks, but won't fire. I have spark, but I question if fuel is getting to the cylinders. Fuel pump runs when I turn the ingition (I can hear the hum before I turn the key further to start the car). Had a tune up about 3 months ago. Heard the same as you about the relay, but I replaced that and saw no improvement.

WEENUSS

well u said it is erradict idiling so that would lead me to beleive that once the chocke warms it drops the idle. So if you have broken a trooth on the timing belt then it would slip and then advance the time or opposite. The no start problem is baffling symptom so im just suggesting an easy thing to check with a timing gun

fbjunkie53

Weenuss: Interesting theory. Makes sense though. I'll try it and post what I find. Thanks!

zetune

I have an 89 Accord with what I think is the same problem. And I just put on a new timing belt as a maintenance item. I highly doubt that is the issue.
I have changed all the ignition consumables (wires, plugs, cap, rotor), no help. I rebuilt the distributor. Found some problems with the mechanical advance mechanism. But I fixed that and although it did improve the cars performance, it did not change the hot starting problem. And mine is crazy... If I stop the engine when it is warmed up. It wont start if I try to restart it right away. (have to let it cool). I also have an engine code (Code 6) Its the water temperature sensor. But I tested the sensor, the wire and tried a different ECU, but didn't help. I tried simulating the sensors output with resistors. Didn't help. I replaced the ignitor. Didn't help. Someone else told me the sensor usually fails intermittently, meaning it might test ok but fail when in use. So I am going to get a new sensor. But I am sick of throwing parts at this car. If you have any luck, let me know what works.

fbjunkie53

I got the error code 6 too. I visually inspected the sensor and found a lot of crud in the connector. Tried to clean it out with some compressed air, but that didn't help. Was going to replace the sensor but haven't gotten to it yet.

After I got the error code 6, I came upon this theory: If the ECU is getting a water overtemp reading (whether legitimate or not), does the ECU prevent the car from starting? If so, that would explain making the car hard to start until it "thinks" its cooled down sufficiently.

I've also heard to check the ignitor in the distributor. That's also on this weekend's to do list.

zetune

Yeah the wire on my sensor looked bad but i fixed that and nothing.
I also bought 3 igniters from the junkyard to try them all and so far I think I might have one yet to try but the other ones changed nothing anyways. But the igniter gets really hot. I put dilectric grease behind it to help it heat sink. but maybe not enough.

I don't think the computer would prevent the car from starting when overtemp though. Usually once the code pops up on my car and the light comes on the car goes to "limp in mode". Which basically just picks a generic opening time for the fuel injectors. (Basically a default fuel flow) The injectors still only pulse once every second revolution, but the pulse width wont adjust for rich/lean. And ive noticed that the car doesn't drive too great with the trouble code on unless the temperature is at normal operating temp. But when you turn the car off and go to restart. The car wont trust the warm signal from the TW sensor. And it will just give the default fuel spray. I tried putting a resistor that matches a warm engine signal but it still wouldn't start until the car cooled, so the computer is probably assuming that it is starting from cold and pours on the fuel. . . Maybe this engine is sensitive to incorrect fuel mixtures. Or maybe the old and decrepit ignition system is not up to the task when it comes to lighting a rich fuel mixture. Its possible that when the thermostat opens, The rush of coolant at high temperature makes the old and decrepit TW sensor send a momenatry high or low signal which trips the code 6.

There is just a thermistor inside the sensor and maybe as the material in the sensor expands due to the increased temperature that the contacts inside the sensor may short or disconnect briefly. This would explain why the sensor seems to work fine on my car until it warms up.

So my plan is to go get 2 or 3 TW sensors tomorrow. And maybe an ignition coil would be a good idea. My car is basically not even driveable. I just converted it to manual transmission and put a bunch of money into the engine. I was hoping all the work would just magically fix the problem. Ha ha. Looks like im stuck using my brain like a sucker.