Jason C SBB

I just bought a '97 HX with 75k miles, for my wife's 700 mi / wk commute, because of its great fuel economy. I'd like to improve the handling to make it more fun to drive and livable.

Here's where I think it needs improvement:

- too much body roll and understeer - front outside tire is overloaded in turns
- shocks are way underdamped
- better tires needed
- steering ratio too slow


Here's what I plan on doing to address the above, in this order
- upgrade sways
- Install Koni sport "yellows" - these can lower the car slightly, to further reduce body roll, increase
- get lightweight 15" wheels and Toyo T1s or Yoko ES100 tires
- swap in Integra steering rack
** I don't want to change the springs, I like the combo of soft springs/firm shocks/medium sways type of suspension tuning, for its ride/handling compromise. I like the car to be fun to drive on the streets and on mountain roads.


First things first, the sways.
-----------------------------------
I've heard that Si or ITR sways may fit.
I looked at these pages (installing 22mm ITR rear sway on 6G)
http://members.aol.com/LLucas7086/itrinst.html
http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/tech/ITRon6G.html
I noted that my Civic has 22mm front sways. I also noted that the '00 Civic Si has a 26mm front sway.

Now my questions:
Would the combo of the stock HX 22mm front sway and rear 22mm ITR sway give too much throttle snap-off oversteer? It wouldn't be safe for my wife on public roads. I like a car that is neutral in mid-corner.

Is the Civic Si front sway a bolt-on affair? I looked at the drawings of my HX front sway:
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...R+ARM++%281%29
and the '00 Si front sway:
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...ER+ARM+%282%29
And they appear to be different.

How about the '00 Si rear sway? It's 13mm:
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...REAR+LOWER+ARM
With my stock 22mm front sway, would it still understeer and have significant body roll?

What diameter is the Suspension Techniques rear sway kit? Is it adjustable? Would it work with my stock front sway? Does it include all bushings and links?

TIA,
Jason

Ronin

Those seem like good ideas. If it is for your wife just for public roads then i think that the SI sways should be fine. I think that ITR sway might be a bit to much. Also you would have to get a beaks reinforcement kit if you got the ITR bar. They have a tendency to rip out of the subframe. With the Si setup you still might have some push in the corners but it will be far less. As for the Integra i think while looking similiar they do not swap in with out alot of work. You might want to check and see if the SI has a quicker steering ratio. Also things like strut, and tie bars and upgrading to polyurathane(is that spelled right?) bushings will help. I am pretty sure that the rear sway should bolt right it. You should check and see if you have sway bar hole in you rear LCA. If you do it should bolt right up.

hope some of that helped

ronin

Jason C SBB

Thanks for your inputs.

If I get the Si front sway, do you think there's a rear sway that will be between the Si and ITR rear?

I'd prefer mild understeer over moderate understeer. She's used to driving a rear drive so she won't be as likely to lift abruptly in midcorner than most people.

I've heard good things about the Z10 radius arm:
http://www.z10eng.com/products.cfm

ManInCamo

the steering rack won't changeover... don't even bother trying. you're going to hvae to live with it, but do get mild drop spings, stock are WAY too soft, especially for the HX.

Jason C SBB

Thanks for the inputs.

Are the factory '00 Si springs stiffer than the stock HX springs? How many % stiffer?

I think for now the labor for swapping the main suspension bushings is a bit too much.

Anyone know which end links will make the '00 Si front sway work with my '97 HX?

Cheers.

Ronin

Yes the spring rates are stiffer on the Si springs. They are 25% stiffer in the front and 33% in the rear. BUT the Bseries engine is i think about 100 to 150 heavier then the d series engine in your HX. So that would make your car look like a 4x4 which is what you don't want. So unless you are planning a swap in a B series i would not do that spring swap.

ronin

agent87

It looks like either GSR or Si front endlinks are what you'll need (along with the properly sized frame bushings of course.)

I'm very impressed with the research and thought you've put into this. Most people don't even know what their handling goals are but that fact that you've stated them helps out a lot.

Whether or not the a 22mm rear will be too much for your stock 22mm front I think will depend on a bunch of little things like your stock spring rates. A lot of other people on this site can give you better info about what differences the ITR rear bar makes but one thing to remember is that they'll most likely have different setups. My gut feeling tells me that you'll probably want to move up to the Si 26mm front to avoid problems with snap oversteer and such. But you might want to try running just the rear bar at first to determine whether or not you'll need the front. Just be careful when you do.

About keeping the factory springs and just upgrading the shocks, I think that's a perfectly sound idea. After I put swaybars on my last car, I told myself that on my next car, I'd do nothing but add swaybars. Strangely enough, I did the opposite for cosmetic reasons...but my puny 21mm front and 13mm rear feel perfect to me for now and I've been able to make the rear step out at will with cheap tires.

About the steering rack, ManInCamo's right. I've never heard of a single success story.

Good luck.

Jason C SBB

Thanks all for the comments. Agent, yep, my satisfaction in driving a car is more dependent on feel and handling than power. I do track days (roadracing) with my Miata. The HX gets incredible gas mileage, it's a nice commute car, and if I can turn the handling into my preferences, the car will be a keeper.

After some more reading I found out that the Suspension Techniques sways (25mm front, 19mm rear) are a lot less work for not very much money.

Now I get the feeling that the Si springs would be just right at +25/+30%. The HX springs now seem way soft. Koni yellows (sport) are height adjustable so I can lower the car back down to normal height, or maybe 1/2 inch below stock. (don't wanna be hitting the bumpstops in turns)

Konis are significantly more expensive than AGX's, but on Miatas at least, they seem to ride better for the same handling benefit.

Anyone have Koni vs. AGX observations?

flipped cracka

i hear that agx are good for the money, but if you have the means, get koni yellows.

supapoopa

It seems that you know the direction you want to take with the car. It sounds suprisingly like the direction that my suspension setup was going when i first started.

I recommend you get springs to match the stiffer shocks. Eibach Prokits (1.2-1.3in. drop ) are what I went with matched with AGX shocks. The setup is perfect for daily driver.

H&R OE are a nice step up form stock springs also and only drop about .5 -1in. I believe Nuespeed also produced a spring that only dropped about 1in. These springs are great if you want better handling without sacraficing ride quality or worry about camber issues.

Just a note, but I would have gone with Koni yellows. At the time I couldn't get myself to spend the extra $200 that actually went toward the tie bars (recommend also). But If i could do it again I would have saved for the Yellows.

As for the front sway bar...
https://www.honda-acura.net/forums/s...threadid=67434
Read my last post. It should be the same for all 96-00 civics (except Si )

WIth the teg 22mm rear bar and and stock 22mm front end it would make the rear more likely to fishtail unexpectedly at high speeds in turns, especially in rain.

As for wheels OEM is cheap and strong. :thumbup:

VVV 94-95 GSR 5 spokes on Yoko AVS es 100 205/50/15. :thumbup: Tires are very grippy, dry or wet. WIshed the treadware rating was a little higher, but great quiet performance tire for the money. :thumbup: :thumbup: