D series boys help! (jafro, bakeoff, white n slow)
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clutch slipping boost
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,696
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From: Minneapolis MN, Golden CO
D series boys help! (jafro, bakeoff, white n slow)
Hey,
The stock Oil cooler on the VX model -- is there any benefit to using this on, say a Y8? or is it as much of a hindrance as it is a benefit?
The stock Oil cooler on the VX model -- is there any benefit to using this on, say a Y8? or is it as much of a hindrance as it is a benefit?
I'm made of meat!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,580
Likes: 0
From: Richmond, VA
Don't bother with the water cooled VX thing. You COULD install it, but you'll need the water pipe from a VX, too. It has an extra nipple on it for the oil cooler feed. The return goes through the AICV system, I think. It's weird.
Just go external. The best thing you could do is get a small setrab cooler around 6x8x1.5, and a screw-on oil filter adapter that allows you a send/return line for you to plumb it to. There are benefits from cooling your oil. Oil gets thinner with heat, so it "shrinks" and your oil clearances seem to expand because the oil is doing less to support those parts. That makes friction. Of course there is a benefit from cooling oil...
BUT!
Doing it with engine coolant isn't the most efficient way. Most cars have a 190-195° thermostat. That means that in some cases, your oil can actually be heated by the coolant. Hot oil can also raise the temperature of your coolant, and you don't want that happening if it's fed through your AICV system because it could mess with your idle speed when it hits the throttle body.
The most efficient way is definitely air/oil. An external cooler's surface area where heat is exchanged is exponentially larger than the oil/coolant (or sandwich cooler) setups. So on a hot 95° day, it's already at least 50% more efficient than the sandwich cooler.
I bought Jeff Gordon's old Setrab oil cooler off of eBay for $60. Had to change out some fittings, but it works great. The external oil cooler/filter housing wasn't really expensive, but is a lot harder to install than the universal screw-on types. I cant use the universal part because of the location of the oil filter, I don't have room. But the OIL LINES busted me in the ass. I needed 2 odd metric M16 to -8AN adapter fittings for the filter housing ($35), 2 weird Setrab-only-to-8AN fittings for the cooler ($28), and 4 -8AN fittings for the lines ($115). Along with the SS -8 braided hose, the total cost of the lines was in the $200-$225 range. The end of the page in my sig for the GSX has an external oil cooler replacement hack on my previously oil/water cooled 4g63.
On a Honda, the oil filter's on the back of the block and there's plenty of room for it. Might even make future oil changes a bit easier. I wouldn't mess with the VX sandwich cooler because the install would probably be no less difficult than just going the external oil cooler route. There's plenty of spare room to mount them on the front of a Honda, but it was a tight squeeze and master wiring harness/AC condenser relocation job on my GSX.
Edit: Basically if you need a oil cooler because your engine is making more power, and thus more heat... a VX oil cooler is "good enough" for the power that a VX makes. They're purpose built. I worked for Alfa Laval thermal building industrial heat exchangers for 2 years. They're only designed to have as many rows in the cooler to exchange the extra heat a VX makes with i-VTEC.
Just go external. The best thing you could do is get a small setrab cooler around 6x8x1.5, and a screw-on oil filter adapter that allows you a send/return line for you to plumb it to. There are benefits from cooling your oil. Oil gets thinner with heat, so it "shrinks" and your oil clearances seem to expand because the oil is doing less to support those parts. That makes friction. Of course there is a benefit from cooling oil...
BUT!
Doing it with engine coolant isn't the most efficient way. Most cars have a 190-195° thermostat. That means that in some cases, your oil can actually be heated by the coolant. Hot oil can also raise the temperature of your coolant, and you don't want that happening if it's fed through your AICV system because it could mess with your idle speed when it hits the throttle body.
The most efficient way is definitely air/oil. An external cooler's surface area where heat is exchanged is exponentially larger than the oil/coolant (or sandwich cooler) setups. So on a hot 95° day, it's already at least 50% more efficient than the sandwich cooler.
I bought Jeff Gordon's old Setrab oil cooler off of eBay for $60. Had to change out some fittings, but it works great. The external oil cooler/filter housing wasn't really expensive, but is a lot harder to install than the universal screw-on types. I cant use the universal part because of the location of the oil filter, I don't have room. But the OIL LINES busted me in the ass. I needed 2 odd metric M16 to -8AN adapter fittings for the filter housing ($35), 2 weird Setrab-only-to-8AN fittings for the cooler ($28), and 4 -8AN fittings for the lines ($115). Along with the SS -8 braided hose, the total cost of the lines was in the $200-$225 range. The end of the page in my sig for the GSX has an external oil cooler replacement hack on my previously oil/water cooled 4g63.
On a Honda, the oil filter's on the back of the block and there's plenty of room for it. Might even make future oil changes a bit easier. I wouldn't mess with the VX sandwich cooler because the install would probably be no less difficult than just going the external oil cooler route. There's plenty of spare room to mount them on the front of a Honda, but it was a tight squeeze and master wiring harness/AC condenser relocation job on my GSX.
Edit: Basically if you need a oil cooler because your engine is making more power, and thus more heat... a VX oil cooler is "good enough" for the power that a VX makes. They're purpose built. I worked for Alfa Laval thermal building industrial heat exchangers for 2 years. They're only designed to have as many rows in the cooler to exchange the extra heat a VX makes with i-VTEC.
Seni
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 0
From: N.Y. Queens
Originally Posted by Jafro
Don't bother with the water cooled VX thing. You COULD install it, but you'll need the water pipe from a VX, too. It has an extra nipple on it for the oil cooler feed. The return goes through the AICV system, I think. It's weird.
Just go external. The best thing you could do is get a small setrab cooler around 6x8x1.5, and a screw-on oil filter adapter that allows you a send/return line for you to plumb it to. There are benefits from cooling your oil. Oil gets thinner with heat, so it "shrinks" and your oil clearances seem to expand because the oil is doing less to support those parts. That makes friction. Of course there is a benefit from cooling oil...
BUT!
Doing it with engine coolant isn't the most efficient way. Most cars have a 190-195° thermostat. That means that in some cases, your oil can actually be heated by the coolant. Hot oil can also raise the temperature of your coolant, and you don't want that happening if it's fed through your AICV system because it could mess with your idle speed when it hits the throttle body.
The most efficient way is definitely air/oil. An external cooler's surface area where heat is exchanged is exponentially larger than the oil/coolant (or sandwich cooler) setups. So on a hot 95° day, it's already at least 50% more efficient than the sandwich cooler.
I bought Jeff Gordon's old Setrab oil cooler off of eBay for $60. Had to change out some fittings, but it works great. The external oil cooler/filter housing wasn't really expensive, but is a lot harder to install than the universal screw-on types. I cant use the universal part because of the location of the oil filter, I don't have room. But the OIL LINES busted me in the ass. I needed 2 odd metric M16 to -8AN adapter fittings for the filter housing ($35), 2 weird Setrab-only-to-8AN fittings for the cooler ($28), and 4 -8AN fittings for the lines ($115). Along with the SS -8 braided hose, the total cost of the lines was in the $200-$225 range. The end of the page in my sig for the GSX has an external oil cooler replacement hack on my previously oil/water cooled 4g63.
On a Honda, the oil filter's on the back of the block and there's plenty of room for it. Might even make future oil changes a bit easier. I wouldn't mess with the VX sandwich cooler because the install would probably be no less difficult than just going the external oil cooler route. There's plenty of spare room to mount them on the front of a Honda, but it was a tight squeeze and master wiring harness/AC condenser relocation job on my GSX.
Edit: Basically if you need a oil cooler because your engine is making more power, and thus more heat... a VX oil cooler is "good enough" for the power that a VX makes. They're purpose built. I worked for Alfa Laval thermal building industrial heat exchangers for 2 years. They're only designed to have as many rows in the cooler to exchange the extra heat a VX makes with i-VTEC.
Just go external. The best thing you could do is get a small setrab cooler around 6x8x1.5, and a screw-on oil filter adapter that allows you a send/return line for you to plumb it to. There are benefits from cooling your oil. Oil gets thinner with heat, so it "shrinks" and your oil clearances seem to expand because the oil is doing less to support those parts. That makes friction. Of course there is a benefit from cooling oil...
BUT!
Doing it with engine coolant isn't the most efficient way. Most cars have a 190-195° thermostat. That means that in some cases, your oil can actually be heated by the coolant. Hot oil can also raise the temperature of your coolant, and you don't want that happening if it's fed through your AICV system because it could mess with your idle speed when it hits the throttle body.
The most efficient way is definitely air/oil. An external cooler's surface area where heat is exchanged is exponentially larger than the oil/coolant (or sandwich cooler) setups. So on a hot 95° day, it's already at least 50% more efficient than the sandwich cooler.
I bought Jeff Gordon's old Setrab oil cooler off of eBay for $60. Had to change out some fittings, but it works great. The external oil cooler/filter housing wasn't really expensive, but is a lot harder to install than the universal screw-on types. I cant use the universal part because of the location of the oil filter, I don't have room. But the OIL LINES busted me in the ass. I needed 2 odd metric M16 to -8AN adapter fittings for the filter housing ($35), 2 weird Setrab-only-to-8AN fittings for the cooler ($28), and 4 -8AN fittings for the lines ($115). Along with the SS -8 braided hose, the total cost of the lines was in the $200-$225 range. The end of the page in my sig for the GSX has an external oil cooler replacement hack on my previously oil/water cooled 4g63.
On a Honda, the oil filter's on the back of the block and there's plenty of room for it. Might even make future oil changes a bit easier. I wouldn't mess with the VX sandwich cooler because the install would probably be no less difficult than just going the external oil cooler route. There's plenty of spare room to mount them on the front of a Honda, but it was a tight squeeze and master wiring harness/AC condenser relocation job on my GSX.
Edit: Basically if you need a oil cooler because your engine is making more power, and thus more heat... a VX oil cooler is "good enough" for the power that a VX makes. They're purpose built. I worked for Alfa Laval thermal building industrial heat exchangers for 2 years. They're only designed to have as many rows in the cooler to exchange the extra heat a VX makes with i-VTEC.
"off topic"
DAHM YOU TYPE A WHOLE LOT! Hehe sorry guys.
it's my D in a B
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 24,787
Likes: 1
From: Your Mom's House
Jafro pretty much tackled everything... the VX cooler really hasn't made any difference compared to the many other hondas I've driven... I think its more of a show-off feature for the gas-sipper than a real performance (or longevity, for that matter) feature. If better engines (read: almost all honda engines) can do without it, you can too. The d15z1 and d16z6/y8 move about the same amount of oil, more or less, but I think you'd be safer going without a feature that was designed for a 92hp, 6k redlining econobox. As Jafro said, if you need cooler oil, go with an external air/oil cooler... its easy and not very pricey either. I can point you to a few write ups if you want.
(BTW, Jafro, you confused the terms vtec-e and i-vtec
h: I am officially a whore.)
(BTW, Jafro, you confused the terms vtec-e and i-vtec
h: I am officially a whore.)
