Building a D15?
09-12-2007, 11:54 AM
#21
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ok thanks jafro, btw it is an 83 celica gts, with a 22re engine and i believe its only pushing around 115 stock. but it definately has more tourqe.
well, the only reason i got exited is because i thought i could create a decent build that wuld have enough power to get me through till i can save up for a decent engine, such as a d16z6 or d15b vtec, and then i can use my ex tranny, header/exaust, and intake parts, since i would have ended up getting them for the vtec engine.
so, since i dont have time to save up and buy decent engine and tranny right now, the best i can do is like the head(intake etc.) and ecu for 100, gaskets, timing belt, plugs and wires for 100, oil pan(50) and a full stainless header/exaust deal from ebay for 200(shipped). theres 450 to start. then two weeks later itll be the ex tranny(300) and the clutch/flywheel kit(200) and that will get her back on the road.. then two weeks after that itll be the pistons/rings and the neccesary block work. then i can start working on adding the rest of the mods. if i had the money to drop on it all at once then i would just swap. but it would take me a lot longer( 2 months), vs 4 weeks to get it back on the road, and have mod parts left over for a better d engine.
considering the condition of the cx ATM and my current budget im going to stick with d series stuff. there is so many parts to be had inexpensively.
im not trying to build anything super fast, boostable, nor am i trying to race anyone. basically my answer to the people who try to race me is to follow me out to the mountain roads for a downhill run or a time trial, and of course it never happens. im more of an initial d person so im not really worried about the 1/4 mile.
though i would much rather have a b series engine, ill save that for when i can afford another hatch, one that is in much better shape, and have a side project that i can buy an engine here, and a trany there, etc.
well, the only reason i got exited is because i thought i could create a decent build that wuld have enough power to get me through till i can save up for a decent engine, such as a d16z6 or d15b vtec, and then i can use my ex tranny, header/exaust, and intake parts, since i would have ended up getting them for the vtec engine.
so, since i dont have time to save up and buy decent engine and tranny right now, the best i can do is like the head(intake etc.) and ecu for 100, gaskets, timing belt, plugs and wires for 100, oil pan(50) and a full stainless header/exaust deal from ebay for 200(shipped). theres 450 to start. then two weeks later itll be the ex tranny(300) and the clutch/flywheel kit(200) and that will get her back on the road.. then two weeks after that itll be the pistons/rings and the neccesary block work. then i can start working on adding the rest of the mods. if i had the money to drop on it all at once then i would just swap. but it would take me a lot longer( 2 months), vs 4 weeks to get it back on the road, and have mod parts left over for a better d engine.
considering the condition of the cx ATM and my current budget im going to stick with d series stuff. there is so many parts to be had inexpensively.
im not trying to build anything super fast, boostable, nor am i trying to race anyone. basically my answer to the people who try to race me is to follow me out to the mountain roads for a downhill run or a time trial, and of course it never happens. im more of an initial d person so im not really worried about the 1/4 mile.
though i would much rather have a b series engine, ill save that for when i can afford another hatch, one that is in much better shape, and have a side project that i can buy an engine here, and a trany there, etc.
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07-12-2008, 02:35 AM
#22
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im running a stock 95 LX, auto tranny, its got the d15b7, can anyone come up with an estimated "cost" to swap it for a b series, preferably a b18, i wanna go vtec but anything bigger than 1500cc would be phenomenal, any advice?
Then use the search button
07-13-2008, 11:55 AM
#25
it's my D in a B
Sorry, it would just be a little more appropriate to start a new thread, or do a little research rather than bumping a 4 year old thread with a totally unrelated question.
07-13-2008, 04:21 PM
#26
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also, it probably doesn't behoof someone that joined HAN yesterday... to wake up all the members from this thread by insulting a long-time member.
We may not always agree on some things around here... like for instance... I think skinny chicks rule... and I like to shave... but I don't have to call anyone names over it. It's important not to when I'm trying to borrow stuff like knowledge or time.
We may not always agree on some things around here... like for instance... I think skinny chicks rule... and I like to shave... but I don't have to call anyone names over it. It's important not to when I'm trying to borrow stuff like knowledge or time.
06-16-2009, 08:05 PM
#27
mugen power anyone???
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could be possible to build d15b??you joking?
Personally, I wouldn't try it. This kind of thread has popped up from time to time, and I always feel obligated to say something... I'd junk a 8-valve 1.5 liter. That's what I did with mine.
While it "could" be possible to build a D15B sleeper, some things you'll need to make it hold boost reliably will all have to be custom-fab. The valves suck, the manifolds are tiny, the rods are light and weak, the pistons are crap, the fasteners are junk, the crank has thin rod journals, and the wrist pins are dinky. The D-series block's floating-sleeve design is a recipe for disaster with boost. You can't do it without sleeves. Who makes a sleeve for a D15? You can buy at least 4 D15 short blocks for what the sleeve costs.
...so you need to replace the head, the manifolds, pistons, rods, crank, sleeve the block, use all new ARP chromoloy fasteners, dual valve springs and a different cam... ...then you might be able to hold boost... and maybe make about as much power as a B18 LS motor. The grinding, boring, honing, pressing, turning, decking, o-ringing, porting, sleeving... labor is probably going to be around $2500-$3000 because of all the custom work that will be required, and expect to pay around $2500-$3000 for parts depending on how much of it needs to be custom fabbed (crank, pistons, and sleeve). Headwork ain't cheap either. I'd just replace that head outright.
I'm not saying I think building a D15B wouldn't be cool. Hell, I did it with a D15B7, but at least mine was a 16-valve motor. The D15B8 is an 8 valve motor, and it's pathetic. You'd better have money to burn, because you'll probably end up with less motor than a stock B18 for more money spent.
If you want to go fast, there are other cheaper alternatives with just as good of a power/weight ratio. Like a Hyundai Excel hatchback with a $400 2.0L 4g63 NA swap. It's a bolt-in 140hp/140tq affair in stock NA fashion. That engine can hold 400hp on STOCK rods/pistons/crank if you boost it, and the "junkyard" turbo setup can be made from 100% factory parts with no custom fabbed anything. Maybe it's just the DSMer in me telling you this.
The machinist in me is saying... unless you want a museum piece that everyone questions the logic of, I'd scrap that idea. Yeah it would be cool, different, but why all that trouble and cost? If you installed that engine and tranny on a bar stool, then it would be really sweet, but put something better in your civic than a D15B8. There's no question your old motor was a great motor with 277k miles on it, but you got lucky. My D15B8 only went 104k before it lost compression. If you do anything, just put a DX head on that sucker, and call it a day. It's worth 35hp at the crank, and an extra 2000 RPMs to red-line with a DX ECU. Mine makes as much tq as hp which is odd for a Honda.
Edit: There's a full write-up of D15 guts in my sig. The rods and pistons of a CX/DX are the same. The pistons are even the same... the 8v pistons still have 4 fly-cuts on the top for a 16 valve head... go figure. The head casting is the same between the two. The valves are identical. The 16 valve just has another 2 valve ports bored through the exact same casting. The intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, throttle bodies, o2 sensors, ECU's, injectors are very different, so if you can just get the top-half of a D15B7 + the ECU, there's your swap. Don't go higher than 9.5:1 on your pistons, and for the love of God, don't boost or spray it. Check my dyno sheet, my motor's 9:1 with stock internals and a 1-angle valve job. Those figures are hp/tq at the wheels, and that's about what a stock 95 si hatch does. Not bad. Use a different gearbox if you autocross. I kept the CX gearbox, and I only have to shift once to reach 80 mph. 3000 RPM's in 5th gear is 92 mph. It's not a transmission for racing, but I still get over 40mpg on the highway.
While it "could" be possible to build a D15B sleeper, some things you'll need to make it hold boost reliably will all have to be custom-fab. The valves suck, the manifolds are tiny, the rods are light and weak, the pistons are crap, the fasteners are junk, the crank has thin rod journals, and the wrist pins are dinky. The D-series block's floating-sleeve design is a recipe for disaster with boost. You can't do it without sleeves. Who makes a sleeve for a D15? You can buy at least 4 D15 short blocks for what the sleeve costs.
...so you need to replace the head, the manifolds, pistons, rods, crank, sleeve the block, use all new ARP chromoloy fasteners, dual valve springs and a different cam... ...then you might be able to hold boost... and maybe make about as much power as a B18 LS motor. The grinding, boring, honing, pressing, turning, decking, o-ringing, porting, sleeving... labor is probably going to be around $2500-$3000 because of all the custom work that will be required, and expect to pay around $2500-$3000 for parts depending on how much of it needs to be custom fabbed (crank, pistons, and sleeve). Headwork ain't cheap either. I'd just replace that head outright.
I'm not saying I think building a D15B wouldn't be cool. Hell, I did it with a D15B7, but at least mine was a 16-valve motor. The D15B8 is an 8 valve motor, and it's pathetic. You'd better have money to burn, because you'll probably end up with less motor than a stock B18 for more money spent.
If you want to go fast, there are other cheaper alternatives with just as good of a power/weight ratio. Like a Hyundai Excel hatchback with a $400 2.0L 4g63 NA swap. It's a bolt-in 140hp/140tq affair in stock NA fashion. That engine can hold 400hp on STOCK rods/pistons/crank if you boost it, and the "junkyard" turbo setup can be made from 100% factory parts with no custom fabbed anything. Maybe it's just the DSMer in me telling you this.
The machinist in me is saying... unless you want a museum piece that everyone questions the logic of, I'd scrap that idea. Yeah it would be cool, different, but why all that trouble and cost? If you installed that engine and tranny on a bar stool, then it would be really sweet, but put something better in your civic than a D15B8. There's no question your old motor was a great motor with 277k miles on it, but you got lucky. My D15B8 only went 104k before it lost compression. If you do anything, just put a DX head on that sucker, and call it a day. It's worth 35hp at the crank, and an extra 2000 RPMs to red-line with a DX ECU. Mine makes as much tq as hp which is odd for a Honda.
Edit: There's a full write-up of D15 guts in my sig. The rods and pistons of a CX/DX are the same. The pistons are even the same... the 8v pistons still have 4 fly-cuts on the top for a 16 valve head... go figure. The head casting is the same between the two. The valves are identical. The 16 valve just has another 2 valve ports bored through the exact same casting. The intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, throttle bodies, o2 sensors, ECU's, injectors are very different, so if you can just get the top-half of a D15B7 + the ECU, there's your swap. Don't go higher than 9.5:1 on your pistons, and for the love of God, don't boost or spray it. Check my dyno sheet, my motor's 9:1 with stock internals and a 1-angle valve job. Those figures are hp/tq at the wheels, and that's about what a stock 95 si hatch does. Not bad. Use a different gearbox if you autocross. I kept the CX gearbox, and I only have to shift once to reach 80 mph. 3000 RPM's in 5th gear is 92 mph. It's not a transmission for racing, but I still get over 40mpg on the highway.
06-17-2009, 05:20 PM
#28
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a) good. then do it.
b) Your post is off-topic. The original poster wanted to build a d15b8. The d15b is not a d15b7 or d15b8. The main/rod bearings are not interchangeable. It has bigger rods. I has a stronger block than the USDM 1.5L sohc so... ? So your defense of the D15 applies to a 5g+ civic... how? We have a CRX forum here, and this ain't it. No 5g+ civic came with a JDM-anything in the US market. They're Canadian. You probably were confused by my references to a D15B, but D15Bx (where x=7 or 8) is assumed in a 92+ civic forum.
c) You could still swap a stock B18B1 in it for less than half of what you'd spend on a mini-me, and end up with about the same hp, more torque and more potential... + even less work unless you're talking about putting it into a CRX.
d) Prove to me that the stock civic fuel system is good for 600hp. It's identical to a DSM's and even has a crappy fuel pump, the same fuel filter (with a different bracket), the same crappy restrictive banjo fittings that suck ass. It maxxes out at 1.9 lpm of fuel flow because of those banjo fittings, and that's barely adequate for 450 injectors. 450 injectors won't make half-that at the wheels. Show me a civic that's making 600hp with a stock fuel system.
e) 5 year-old thread, man. let it die.
f) welcome to HAN.
I had to get to f. It's okay to like your car man, to each-his own... but I'm not too worried about the extreme-performance-potential of any 1.5L civic.
b) Your post is off-topic. The original poster wanted to build a d15b8. The d15b is not a d15b7 or d15b8. The main/rod bearings are not interchangeable. It has bigger rods. I has a stronger block than the USDM 1.5L sohc so... ? So your defense of the D15 applies to a 5g+ civic... how? We have a CRX forum here, and this ain't it. No 5g+ civic came with a JDM-anything in the US market. They're Canadian. You probably were confused by my references to a D15B, but D15Bx (where x=7 or 8) is assumed in a 92+ civic forum.
c) You could still swap a stock B18B1 in it for less than half of what you'd spend on a mini-me, and end up with about the same hp, more torque and more potential... + even less work unless you're talking about putting it into a CRX.
d) Prove to me that the stock civic fuel system is good for 600hp. It's identical to a DSM's and even has a crappy fuel pump, the same fuel filter (with a different bracket), the same crappy restrictive banjo fittings that suck ass. It maxxes out at 1.9 lpm of fuel flow because of those banjo fittings, and that's barely adequate for 450 injectors. 450 injectors won't make half-that at the wheels. Show me a civic that's making 600hp with a stock fuel system.
e) 5 year-old thread, man. let it die.
f) welcome to HAN.
I had to get to f. It's okay to like your car man, to each-his own... but I'm not too worried about the extreme-performance-potential of any 1.5L civic.
Last edited by Jafro; 06-17-2009 at 05:29 PM.
06-20-2009, 07:12 PM
#29
mugen power anyone???
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I hear ya! but you did say d15-b
lol, as far as off topic i dont think so. i agree in the fact that his d series block is worthless for building. as far as saying a d-15b is??? i dont think so.the full ground up build d series vs. b series is as follows i can get the whole d series total engine kit for 500$ give or take a few dollars. go price a full build for a b- series cams and all and get back to me. plus the weight difference is more like 100-150 lbs give or take.all i am saying is that although the b series does make more torque, all torque does is increase the amount you are gonna spin out the hole.yes i do like crx's and i also like cheap power there is absolutely no doubt that i can run 10lbs. of boost on a stock d series all day and make an extra 100 plus h.p. so i dont know what ur trying to say?? the d series vtec motors are def. the best way to get cheap buildable bolt right in power?? you do know that d15b is a vtec block right??if im not mistaken it was the first??ans the si 1.5 throttle body and fuel rail is more thas sufficient you can put 450cc injectors right in??and no not good to 600 h.p. prolly like 300 but the ignition is good to 600h.p. and there are soooo many aftermarket kits to build a d-15b block low compression or stroker nitrous kit so dunno what ur talking about custom fabrication??? any questions??
a) good. then do it.
b) Your post is off-topic. The original poster wanted to build a d15b8. The d15b is not a d15b7 or d15b8. The main/rod bearings are not interchangeable. It has bigger rods. I has a stronger block than the USDM 1.5L sohc so... ? So your defense of the D15 applies to a 5g+ civic... how? We have a CRX forum here, and this ain't it. No 5g+ civic came with a JDM-anything in the US market. They're Canadian. You probably were confused by my references to a D15B, but D15Bx (where x=7 or 8) is assumed in a 92+ civic forum.
c) You could still swap a stock B18B1 in it for less than half of what you'd spend on a mini-me, and end up with about the same hp, more torque and more potential... + even less work unless you're talking about putting it into a CRX.
d) Prove to me that the stock civic fuel system is good for 600hp. It's identical to a DSM's and even has a crappy fuel pump, the same fuel filter (with a different bracket), the same crappy restrictive banjo fittings that suck ass. It maxxes out at 1.9 lpm of fuel flow because of those banjo fittings, and that's barely adequate for 450 injectors. 450 injectors won't make half-that at the wheels. Show me a civic that's making 600hp with a stock fuel system.
e) 5 year-old thread, man. let it die.
f) welcome to HAN.
I had to get to f. It's okay to like your car man, to each-his own... but I'm not too worried about the extreme-performance-potential of any 1.5L civic.
b) Your post is off-topic. The original poster wanted to build a d15b8. The d15b is not a d15b7 or d15b8. The main/rod bearings are not interchangeable. It has bigger rods. I has a stronger block than the USDM 1.5L sohc so... ? So your defense of the D15 applies to a 5g+ civic... how? We have a CRX forum here, and this ain't it. No 5g+ civic came with a JDM-anything in the US market. They're Canadian. You probably were confused by my references to a D15B, but D15Bx (where x=7 or 8) is assumed in a 92+ civic forum.
c) You could still swap a stock B18B1 in it for less than half of what you'd spend on a mini-me, and end up with about the same hp, more torque and more potential... + even less work unless you're talking about putting it into a CRX.
d) Prove to me that the stock civic fuel system is good for 600hp. It's identical to a DSM's and even has a crappy fuel pump, the same fuel filter (with a different bracket), the same crappy restrictive banjo fittings that suck ass. It maxxes out at 1.9 lpm of fuel flow because of those banjo fittings, and that's barely adequate for 450 injectors. 450 injectors won't make half-that at the wheels. Show me a civic that's making 600hp with a stock fuel system.
e) 5 year-old thread, man. let it die.
f) welcome to HAN.
I had to get to f. It's okay to like your car man, to each-his own... but I'm not too worried about the extreme-performance-potential of any 1.5L civic.
Last edited by mcclain_stephen; 06-20-2009 at 08:11 PM. Reason: left info. out
06-20-2009, 08:03 PM
#30
mugen power anyone???
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i hear ya!
lol you go buy ur hasport swap mounts and you are already over buget??lol i wasn't and am not in the market to argue with you but i didnt get confused you are the one who said d15b not b7 b8 and the guy in original post was talking about waiting on a z6 or building what he had! you are the one who totally tried to talk him out of building d series all together??all i was saying is why?? and you SHOULD respect the dseries afterall it is d series that put honda on the map!! to have 100 h.p. and fuel economy then over 4600 rpm to turn into a whole new 140 h.p. motor. i will let it lie as soon as you respect the Dseries!!fair enough?? hasport mounts are like 500$-1000$ why not spend that on a turbo kit??and make waaaay more power??
a) good. then do it.
b) Your post is off-topic. The original poster wanted to build a d15b8. The d15b is not a d15b7 or d15b8. The main/rod bearings are not interchangeable. It has bigger rods. I has a stronger block than the USDM 1.5L sohc so... ? So your defense of the D15 applies to a 5g+ civic... how? We have a CRX forum here, and this ain't it. No 5g+ civic came with a JDM-anything in the US market. They're Canadian. You probably were confused by my references to a D15B, but D15Bx (where x=7 or 8) is assumed in a 92+ civic forum.
c) You could still swap a stock B18B1 in it for less than half of what you'd spend on a mini-me, and end up with about the same hp, more torque and more potential... + even less work unless you're talking about putting it into a CRX.
d) Prove to me that the stock civic fuel system is good for 600hp. It's identical to a DSM's and even has a crappy fuel pump, the same fuel filter (with a different bracket), the same crappy restrictive banjo fittings that suck ass. It maxxes out at 1.9 lpm of fuel flow because of those banjo fittings, and that's barely adequate for 450 injectors. 450 injectors won't make half-that at the wheels. Show me a civic that's making 600hp with a stock fuel system.
e) 5 year-old thread, man. let it die.
f) welcome to HAN.
I had to get to f. It's okay to like your car man, to each-his own... but I'm not too worried about the extreme-performance-potential of any 1.5L civic.
b) Your post is off-topic. The original poster wanted to build a d15b8. The d15b is not a d15b7 or d15b8. The main/rod bearings are not interchangeable. It has bigger rods. I has a stronger block than the USDM 1.5L sohc so... ? So your defense of the D15 applies to a 5g+ civic... how? We have a CRX forum here, and this ain't it. No 5g+ civic came with a JDM-anything in the US market. They're Canadian. You probably were confused by my references to a D15B, but D15Bx (where x=7 or 8) is assumed in a 92+ civic forum.
c) You could still swap a stock B18B1 in it for less than half of what you'd spend on a mini-me, and end up with about the same hp, more torque and more potential... + even less work unless you're talking about putting it into a CRX.
d) Prove to me that the stock civic fuel system is good for 600hp. It's identical to a DSM's and even has a crappy fuel pump, the same fuel filter (with a different bracket), the same crappy restrictive banjo fittings that suck ass. It maxxes out at 1.9 lpm of fuel flow because of those banjo fittings, and that's barely adequate for 450 injectors. 450 injectors won't make half-that at the wheels. Show me a civic that's making 600hp with a stock fuel system.
e) 5 year-old thread, man. let it die.
f) welcome to HAN.
I had to get to f. It's okay to like your car man, to each-his own... but I'm not too worried about the extreme-performance-potential of any 1.5L civic.