Originally posted by asianautica
I think you're contradicting yourself a little here. First you're going off saying how Nissan needs a bigger engine to achieve the same level of power, but then you brought the in the comparison of the NSX and the GT-R. Last I checked, the GT-R has a 2.6L I6 engine. That's much smaller than the 3.2L from the NSX. Also, I don't get your argument about turbo. What's wrong w/ turbo? Nissan never use a big block in its sport car. It's most powerful engine still comes from a 2.6L I6. Then the 3.0L V6 from the 300ZX... Last but not least, their famous SR20DET. If I'm not mistaken, those are pretty small engine.
...let's disect this into n/a forms versus forced induction...honda doesn't make any if at all cars with forced induction anymore (honda city turbo, and some motorcycles also had it long ago)
n/a forms...what engine does nissan have that compares to an f20c?...sr20ve but it only makes 200hp. The first 3.0 nsx engine of 270hp?...only the vq 3.5 liter makes near or over 270hp...as for the sr16ve n1...it was a street ready race engine sold in limited numbers to be raced in the n1 class...it's idle was at least ~1,500 rpms meaning it was tuned for all out power...however, you could buy a spoon civic ctr in japan with a 210hp 1.6 that was tuned for n1 racing too...however b/c both were tuned to make so much hp it makes little power at lower rpms...i wish i had a dyno of these two engines side by side to show torque curves...both are impressive
turbos and other forced induction...aren't avail from factory hondas anymore so it's not fair to compare a honda engine with an aftermarket unit (tuned for more power than a factory turbo would)...that's why i separated out to not discuss forced inducted models
What do you mean about efficiency? If you start say turbo is old school and NA is much better than turbo, then you should ask yourself why Porsche use turbo for their 911 turbo, Mercedes and their supercharged V8, Toyota w/ their Supra, and Nissan w/ their GT-R. There's only two way to get more power....1) bigger engine and 2) forced induction. F/I is the answer to the statement of there's no replacement for displacement. A built RB26DETT can be able to handle over 1000HP. Almost 500HP/L is nothing to discard as old school to me. If you can say turbo is cheating... then what do you call VTEC? VTEC is another way to get more air into the engine... adding more fuel and you'll get a stronger combustion = more HP. Same w/ turbo.... forced more air in + more gas = more HP. Two technique reaching the same goal.
...the total number of warranty claims on a failed vtec system = 0 (astonishing reliabilty record)...turbos add more complexity which means more engine problems in the long run (it is also harder on the engine in boost transition)
as for comparing race engines i was not doing...nissan never sold the rb26dett with 1000hp from the factory so it's not the point
as for porche's 911 turbo...why are most racing porshes n/a 911 gt3s...again this is off topic of honda/nissan
i'm not dogging on turbos either...i'm helping a shop build a t3 for my 2.0 protege5...n/a improvement is pretty weak due to no avail variable valve timing or etc to make a revvy daily driver
Your argument says larger engines weigh more.... but the NSX has a larger engine than the GT-R... yet the NSX is lighter than the GT-R. However, both can handle its own. How can you explain that? Also, your arguement about JGTC doesn't really explain anything about the cars. If anything, it shows that the driver of the NSX-R is better of the bunch. Those car are so close in performance that the driver is the one that set them apart.
nsx is lighter it's frame, engine block and head, and body are all aluminium (one of the first cars to sport all this lightweight material), it is a mr layout which means less drivetrain loss of power and lower weight along with better weight distribution...where the rb26dett r34 gt-r is a front engine awd layout, iron block/alloy head, plus all the weight from the twin turbos, piping and intercoolers, etc. adds up to a lot of extra weight
my point is nissans overall strength is in turbo engines where hondas is in n/a forms...where nissan usually doesn't have a turbo model for its lineup it usually uses extra displacement...such as the 3.5 in the altima, or the k2.5 in the sentra
and i agree that nissan may have a public perception as a more sporty car maker but in reality honda was one of the few companies bred on racing (very elite category such as porsche, bmw, ferrari, lotus)...though honda never really drove that fact home over its 50 years of existence and became too successful selling docile commuter vehicles