well if you don't believe me thats cool, but i know i did and it scared the **** out of me. I had pictures of his car but i lost the link when i switched over to windows XP. shockjohn has seen the pics. i was racing the dude and went around a pretty big curve and we both starting sliding, i corrected it and so did he until his tire blew and came off the rim, then he lost control and ran off the road, jumped the curb, a dirt embankment, got airborne then spun outa control in a field. obtw he was in a 6th gen SE sedan lowered 1.5 inches on 18" konig verdicts.