Originally posted by 08SnakeEyes08
dude u are totally wrong............. u could make this same judgement with everything, CARS, HOUSE, computers, clothes.......
I don't think that I'm wrong, of course, you could make that argument with anything! I don't htink that you are wrong either, we just have different perceptions of what's out there, and what characteristics are important to us.
That's what marketing is based on. People's perceptions of the total value of a product. Again, why do people buy BMW's instead of a Yugo? Sure they both get you there, but BMW not only has the added features, but it also carries a notion of elegance, performance, prestige, safety, ect..... You never buy just a car....you buy a whole package and part of that package is image...the same is true for consumer electronics purchases....you don't think so....hear me out....
Alpine are the top of the Headunit makers.... why?? best features, usefull features, nice placement. why are they considered the best?? for the past 10 years, their headunits are the most durable compared to other companies.
You like their features, eh? Personally, I don't need any of that bass engine crap or a changer control, or a flip out face. Is the alpine still better for me then the next unit?
Do you really have the quantitative data to back up that statistic...or are you just making that one up? If so, throw down the link, I'd like to see the actual data for my own personal education.
There's no doubt that alpine are the top of the class. ASK ANYONE WITH DECENT KNOWLEDGE. ask the car stereo enthusics.... they'll say alpine. why?? features, quality, and it sends out non clipping power.... less distrotion....
I'd consider myself to have "Decent Knowledge." There's more then one top dog out there...if you don't agree with that, then you are being closed minded....again, it's marketing. Again, hear me out....
Everyone's perception of "the best" is a mish mash of the performace of a product coupled with it's perceived value (again, look at my earlier post) If Jensen really came out with the best head unit in the world, would everyone run out and buy it immediately? Probably not...why....they have a stigma associated with thier brand name. Jensen's latest line of amps acutally tested to rated power.
Test my theory this way....what do you think of when you hear Alpine? you are probably thinking head units, car audio, performance, and high-end? Probably not speakers....What about JL...first thing that most people will say is Subs...why, they cornered that market for a while....everyone used them. Now they realeased amps and components....they are gaining market share beacuse of the image associated with thier subs...why can't the same work for Alpine...if no one gives them a chance in the speaker arena yet they make the best things out there, the product line will still fail.....
Same goes for MB Quart. Whould you ever think that MB Quart made great subs? Most wouldn't....why they own "components", not subs. Scott Buhwalda competes uses MB Quart subs....and does very well, but I bet if you ask the general audio user out there, how good are MB Subs, you will get the "....uhhh I know their components are the best out there, but I guess their subs are ok"
Alpine just so happens to carry a positive stigma. There are many other heads out there that are arguably as good or better then Alpine. Eclipse and Alpine are always duking it out for the top ranks...they are different heads, and they are targeted toward different users. Who's to say that I don't like an Eclipse deck better then you, and you think I'm f-ing nuts? Who's wrong then...guess what, neither of us!!! Last time I checked, Alpine doens't offer 16V balanced outputs on heads....Eclipse does...if I need that feature....Alpine is no longer top dog to me, now is it?
speakerS?? that's a different thing........ the new type x speakers are great speakers.... BUT FOR THE 800 DOLLAR PRICE RANGE.. NO THX. OVER PRICED LIKE EVERY OTHER ALPINE PRODUCT. yes i used to have an alpine deck, yes i used to have alpine subs, yes i used to have alpine amps......
Those speakers may not be worth 800 TO YOU, but they may provide the level of performance (plus added value: i.e. looks, prestige, manft. support etc) that another guy is willing to pay for. Some people are willing to pay for the Alpine name. People don't like taking chances.
Sony is a great example of this. Generally speaking in the home audio/theater arena, Sony is accepted as a top quality brand. I happen to own a few of their products (a pair of Wegas and a DVD player) People know the TV is high quality, so they also assume the DVD is highquality too...it's easier to stick with your brand because you have an expectation level set for sony. There may be a DVD player out there for less that's better then the sony you bought, but you didn't think about it because you don't what the risk.
You are entitled to your opinion, but don't tell other people they are wrong because they are willing to pay more for a product then you are. Again, not saying that there are products out there the may or do perform better. Car audio is subjective....
the f1 series is the best no questions ask. theres no disagreement there. if u don't got the money, and don't think its worth it, that a different story. IF this deck was around the 1000 price range, it would be the best selling deck.
Yes, there is a disagreement ther....that's just close minded. There are more heads or combinations of units out there that perform as good or better. There is no "best" there will never be.... I'd happily trade a nice CD transport and a great outboard DAC (thinking of ID DAC-20 (used price ~1500) or the IDONE - if it ever comes out) for an F1 Status.
Recently, a test was done at ID comparing the above situation. A Macrom CD Transport connected to the ID DAC-20 was compared to a Denon Z1. That's denon's flagship head at 2500 a pop. The ID DAC was the unanimous winner. Check out the post on elite:
http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showt...4&pagenumber=1
The F1 unit for the most part is a mobile multimedia system ( I know that the 7990 is a straight head, but the entire system is signal processing, MM switiching all in one.).....If I want MM, sure it's probably the best thing out there if you throw away the price....but think about it...if I just want two channel stereo, all that extra crap is no longer important. True, there's a ton of exceptional quality, technology and features in there, but saying it's better then EVERY concievable combo out there....that's a tall order.
If anyone's interested...check alpine's F1 gear here:
http://www.alpine.co.jp/alpinef1status/flash.html
also..... if someone is building a system, build a system thats decent all around. THERE'S NO POINT OF HAVING A 1000 DOLLAR SUB, AND a 1000 dollar amp, with 3 dollar wires, 50 dollar speakers, and a crap headunit. will it be loud??? yes, will it sound good?? no.
I agree with you here. You should plan a whole system, and include a budget for installation.
What is really getting argued here is what is a brand worth to someone. Again, saying one brand is "THE BEST" is close minded. A products actual value is rarely just it's performance. To make things more fun, perfomance is different from person to person.
Again, I don't think that we are disagreeing on a fundamental level. Your perception of Alpine's overall worth is better then mine....and that's ok. That's why there are so many companies out there offering high end gear...it's actually a good time to be shopping for audio. I guess what I'm trying to say is...buy what sounds good to you, looks good to you, and leaves you enough money in your wallet to put gas in your car.....a car no matter how cool it looks is still lame when it can't leave your driveway :thumbup:
Also, I'm not trying to pick on anyone, and I know this all sounds a bit like a wishy-washy marketing presentation, but there is more out there then simply product performance that leads people to say Brand "X" makes the best Component "Y"
Sorry that was so wordy...