Well... and here's where I go out on a limb and feel free to add in two cents... fifty cents.. whatever. Women don't nessacarily have to cum to get off. As long as two people are in sync, orgasm isn't even nessacary because just the entire act of what's going on feels amazing. So.. I guess.. essentially, as Lee mentioned in a previous thread, lesbian sex CAN be described as foreplay. But, me personaly, I feel that cheapens it because I've had some mind blowing sexors without penetration.. and mind blowing sexors WITH penetration (both recieving and giving) It's a free for all really. I just think the "confusion" part stems from the different mentalities of sex. Sex for a straight guy (assuming here, feel free to elaborate) = stick my penor in chica vag. And I guess everything else falls under "foreplay" I mean.. it varies on who you talk to, I guess. I've met some lesbians who want NOTHING entering them and even scoff at the idea of strap ons. To me.. I feel that's limititing. Who cares what's going on.. or what it means if it feels good? If someone I'm with likes to get fucked by strap ons.. shit.. I'll strap one on and go to town. It's all what the person's into, I guess. h: