ok maybe i should have been more clear about this. my parents aren't going to spend anything over 20 k and thats canadian so thats like umm 13 k for you american fellows? i don't think the 2k civic ex falls under 13 k. and my parents are pretty bent on buying a new car because they can get thier 3k credit from the gm credit card they've been saving for the last 10 years.