what i was trying to achieve was no pinging and getting the timing set where the book and VECI label calls for which is having the x on the flywheel in the crosshairs. the more you advance your timing, the further away the x gets which only makes sense that my timing belt must be off a tooth if i retard as far as alowd and it gets closer but not in the crosshairs. making sense? You're only going to ping under an advanced timing situation b/c your firing the plugs before it reaches optimum compression and basically the engine is fighting itself-firing before the valves are closed causing detonation and burning your pistons...not good. making sense? lemme know