das schmoo i was just joking...i didnt want the thread to get out of hand....like some others i've seen.....it seemed like you got a little upset about what mikesta21 said.....so i tried to take it a differnt direction, instead of havinga argument about v dubs and honda's.........oh yeah 97civicex, i dont know what kind of education you got but it makes perfect sense.....you dont have to kiss schmoo ass.......