that occurred to me shabacash, hence, the diagnostic. the other part of it is that i hate buying cars with ugly ass rims, ugly ass body kits, "interior goodies"... people do such stupid shit to cars, i don't want any part of it. my old accord even had the stock crappy tapedeck in it when i bought it, i consider that a good sign. it was owned by a little old lady. i still can't figure out why in the hell she bought a stick in the first place. that car served me very well. i bought it with 103k on it, spent the money on the 90k service, drove it for 3.5 years and 55k more miles, then sold it to my girl cheap. it still looks gorgeous, runs flawlessly, burns no oil and passes smog with flying colors. that is a great car. it's easily got another 160k left in it.