i probably hate those things more than you.. but 12 seconds is attainable in a honda.. i right now run (about 14 something) roughly.... and will be heading hopefully towards solid 13's with a mild build and a little more juice... but funny thing.. i don't need your respect.. i have my own, because im doing what i liek to do... i love my car, but i appreciate ALL cars, that are fast, or not even fast.. all cars that are done tastefully, with the heart of the tuner (wether it be import or domestic) into the car... not some goofy wing because some dumb highschool girl thinks its "hot"... i do what i do to my car because i like it.. and it may not be all that fast but coming from high 16's stock im doing pretty good... i just ask you to look at cars like mine and give them a chance.. judge them for what they are... alot of us here are trying to go fast, and are not just into bolting on huge wings.. learn to judge people on an individual basis and not as a whole, and maybe you will surprise yourself and find somethign you like

anyone can buy a 5.0 and bolt on a 100 shot and gear...