"no matter what toyota says? this, again, is your own opinion. i also think toyota knows their own sales a little better than you or i."

Yes, it IS in fact my own opinion about the fact that I believe the underbody spoiler kitted version targets a DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHIC than what the standard standalone Camry does.

"toyota has seen the average age of it's buyers rising steadily for the past decade. if the factory body kit changes the whole demographic target of the car as you suggest, you would expect the average age to decrease, wouldn't you? either that or people are buying them in such insignificant numbers that it has no effect on the demographics. either way, the fact remains: it's not a "youthful" car."

Well, perhaps I would not go as far to say THE WHOLE DEMOGRAPHIC coming into Toyota dealerships, but let me ask you this: is it not POSSIBLE WHATSOEVER or AT ALL to just a minute ASSUME that YOUNGER people people would be looking at adding that body kit rather than OLDER ones? Can we ASSUME that? Im not suggesting the ENTIRE Toyota demographic is going to change based on a body kit option they offer for one vehicle, what Im saying is it is my opinion that the optional underbody spoiler kit makes this car, yes, APPEAR more youthful and sporty.

"i think we all know what you think by now."

Apparently-----and VERY apparently---not.

"i'm trying to tell you that if you're so concerned with other people seeing you and your car as sporty and youthful, you're looking at the wrong car."

Well, like I said to J, perhaps this was a misunderstanding on YOUR behalf and a lack of good communication on MINE....what I was getting at was the fact that I believe the Camry with the ground effects would be a good head turner as opposed to one without the effects and would give me what I wanted --- a large sedan with a sports appeal to it, not necessarily something that was going to make women drop their panties in the streets.....although I have to tell you----I have SEEN it here in Vegas in the valet parking garages----PLENTY of younger people take second glances and stares at Camrys with ground effect kits, and I see it.

"you keep asking for opinions, and we're giving them to you. but you're so in love with the camry (not that that's a bad thing) that you refuse to accept anyone else's opinion. so why are you still asking?"

What are you talking about? When did I REFUSE someone's opinion? I keep thanking J and everyone else for their thoughts......you're losing me here....

"if you really want more input, post a thread and ask opinions in the basement, which is the off-topic forum here. there are many more viewers, and plenty of non-honda owners there. if you want help deciding, that's a much better place to ask for opinions than the accord forum, where people are more likely to be biased toward accords."

Thats all you had to suggest; perhaps I will try that, unless I get more feedback from J. Thanks.