hey guys (and gals?) - this kind of back and forth BS is what destoys many forums. At first I was somewhat 'sypathetic' to DJ Scotty II when 98CoupeV6 replied w/ a "why don't you use the 'search' function on this forum?" I had considered replying right away with some 'opinionated advise' based on my over 40 yrs of building hot rods (turbo'd Corvairs, '34 & '40 Fords, race cars, etc,) and mosty recently a tuner for my son and my wife. . .but being a nubee (sp?) on this site, I decided to watch the drama unfold before expressing myself. Didn't want to 'fuel the fire' (not sorry for pun) and jump to an opinion, etc.

However, I can't stand just minding my own business when I see such gobbly-goop waste everyone's time and energy, esp. when a solution to Scotty's question is so easily obtained - by him.

The simplistic approach would be for Scotty to contact the service manager at his local dealer (and if I 'know him well enough' from this ridiculous thread, he could then contact another 6 or 7 dealers and average their replies. lol Or, he could go to the same dealer and look in one of their used cars which usually has an owner's manual in it, and look for himself. Or he could purchase one direct from Helms (get the phone #, or website, from the dealer, or just Google for it). Or, he could purchase one on eBay for less than $10. But it sounds more like he wants a fight with anyone that hasn't agreed w/ him, and esp a particular person from Syracuse (and that's NOT on Long Island as Scotty mentioned, and who cares anyway - he thinks that Long Island folks are 'tough' - wait to he has a disageement w/ someone in a Vegas casino. . .)

As far as advise: read the owner's manual and heed it's advise. I sold Hondas when the 6th Gen were introduced and I always gave recommendations to new owners at delivery to follow the owner's manual to the letter - including that they needn't change their oil every 3000 miles just because the dealer's service department and the oil companies said so. It wouldn't hurt to, but why waste your money on more frequent changes than necessary, or for that matter on 91 or 93 octane when 87 is just fine. Of course, if driving conditions are more severe than normal -towing, stop & go, constant hi-spd in hi-temp conditions, or infrequent use of the car - esp in very cold climates or very short commutes, more frequent oil changes are wise insurance. Perhaps under very high operating temps, running 91 might be a good idea, as detonation is more possible when an engine is running very hot (although I've never had an Acura Legend, Integra or any Honda ever overheat). Changes in altitude can affect performance but I do not think that a change to a higher octane will make any differance. Also, in certain regions of the country, a junk formula of 'hybrid' fuels are imposed on drivers - like in Denver in the winter, and other places at different times of the year. Who knows what octane level that junk is? Best advise is to stick to a name brand of gas - you are more likely to get gas made by that company. I used to think that 'company owned' gas stations were more relaible as to what fuel one got, but I don't trust any oil companies anymore. If you see a 'gypsy-looking' fuel truck depositing gas at your local gas station, it could be from most any refinery, and not necessarily from the brand on the gas pumps. btw: 91 is made from a blend of 87 and 93 (or 92 in some parts of the US) and it's blended right at the gas station as you fill up your car.

The only time I'd recommend deviating from the recommended octane level on an un-modified car is when it gets over 100k miles on it and the heads never been off the engine. Fuel system deposits can build up in combustion chambers and on valve faces, and actually increase the compression in one or more cylinders. Bumping up to 91 from 87 may decrease the possiblility of detonation, although modern emission control systems have so many safe guards built-in to prevent knock that it may not even be necessary. A decent tune-up including correct(ed) ignition timing and properly gapped plugs, good plug wires, and a fresh rotor and cap, and assuming correctly functioning smog controls incl. the cat-convertor, should be all that's needed on even super hi-mile cars - not 93 octane. My son's never-been-apart, Gen2 Teg is approching 200k mostly trouble-free miles.

I think that Scotty wants that 'extra hp' that his lame salesman promised him with a switch to 93 octane, and that he was really hoping that someone would say that his salesman wasn't BS'g him. Then again, perhaps he wanted a reason to be angry w/his salesman, too. Perhaps the enterprising salesman used the lure of 'extra hp' as a means to bump up Scotty to a higher payment. It's done all the time w/ the 'right suspect' when closing a sale. . .

btw - My wife's '02 Accord I4 has never had anything but '87 octane in it for 50k miles, and we consistently get around 30 miles per gallon and don't even fuss over checking it, since it's so frugile on fuel. I run a name brand fuel injector cleaner thru it every 5k miles or so, in case we had picked up some crappy gas somewhere. As far as what brands we use - Exxon/Mobil, BP/Amoco, Chevron, and Shell - only if that's all that's available. Never use crappy Citgo - have had bad experiences with it in several cars, although it may have been the slugs at the gas station and dirty tanks, etc. (no one asked, but I seldom have the dealer install their 'brand of oil' which they purchase in bulk - who knows what it really is, and what viscosity rating, etc.? Often it's either Quaker State or Pennzoil - both high in ash deposits and to be avoided. Only use Valvoline or Castrol in all my cars and projects)

So there -