not to change the subject but... hey bubbrubb i notice you got 17's (alloy???) any idea on how much they weigh? because im about to just order some alloys (17's) and i seen some nice ones on ebay for like 300.00 w/o the tires plus150.00 shipping. (is that a good deal?) problem is, i dont know how much they weigh, and they dont say how much on there. if you even have an idea of how much the average alloy weighs lemme know. If they are about 10lbs lighter than stock then ill be satisfied.