dude i only say what i experience. im taking them down pretty easy and only got taken by a few. never by an auto civ tho. only two manuals and one was turboed. the other had computer chip upgrades. i/h/e. full suspensin upgrade. and a new stage three clutch as well as some other stuff. but ya i do take civics with it. you saying you back the avg civic? over a lude?