thanx...all I wanted was a rough idea...I spent 3 hours on it and mine was like 300X worse then that so you put me to shame...I got those to be my winter rims...I think I am going to put some michelin snow tires on it...This will be my first winter in MD and I prolly wont even need winter tires but what the hell...I definatly can't use the stock tires in the snow...and I don't want to fawk up my stock rims....the stock rims are really nice BBS ones.