Originally posted by DVPGSR
Actually I have seen the two sides and the second one makes no sense whatsoever.
I want you to grow up in a third world country like Iraq and Afganistan and get kicked around by everyone. Your government fucks you, you're in poverty, things arn't good.
Guess what. Thats life. Nothings perfect.
But then, this other group of people come in and overthrow your government and tell you you're free. But life hasn't changed. Its still the same bullshit. Maybe you have better opertunities, but for what, money?
its still a shitty life regardless.
Because it is documented!!!!!
NO, BECAUSE WE GAVE THEM TO THEM!!!!
thats right, we had a deal with Iraq to take care of Iran, and we armed the motherfuckers. Of course we think they have WMD. We gave them to them.
Atleast you admit it is irrational...there are more of your thoughts you need to realize that are irrational as well.
oh, and you're thoughts arn't irrational as well?
After reading your latest novel of ignorance I too got a good laugh.
yeah, irony's funny, isn't it?
Originally posted by /^Blackmagik^\
Bombing of the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia in which 19 America soldiers were killed and hundreds wounded by Osama bin Laden. 372 wounded
people who shouldn't have been there in the first place
TWA Flight 800 exploded and crashed into the Atlantic Ocean on its way from New York to Paris. all dead
thats not terror. That was a problem with the plane.
so that's 9 during the clinton era, 4 of which you conveniently omitted for sake of argument.
actually, 8, and thats still even with bush.
but the only attacks on clintons watch that were on american soil wern't near as major as 9-11-01.
maybe clinton "didn't do anything" because he realized getting into a war with people you can't really fight and throwing your country over 4 billion in the whole "liberating" countrys for the sake of convenience.
but enough about clinton. I could care less about democrats.
703 dead and 6609 wounded. isn't that enough of a wake up call?
700 dead doesn't make a good enough reason to call war on the world.
thank whatever diety you hold dear that you are not president.
maybe I don't want to be
we practiced isolationism up until WW2 where we tried to stay out of the fight altogether. what happened? Pearl Harbor was annihlated and the Lucitania was sunk.
you still think we didn't know about pearl harbor?
and the lucitania was carrying troops/weapons/supplies.
this country was attacked, unprovoked, and if we try isolationism again the same thing will probably happen.
and when it does happen again, we'll jump into action like we did in WWI and WWII and kick some ass. Thats the real secret.
but still, that was the past, and things have infact changed. We're not fighting a fucking country anymore.
war will escalate around us and we will have no choice but to join the fray.
but when there's no choice, options have been extinguished.
we're jumping the gun this time. I rather we go through all available meathods before we pick up a gun a kill someone.
there's other ways to work out things than measuring dicks.
personally i'm all for a skirmish here and there in an isolated theatre if it means we don't have to fight a war on a global scale.
but we're indeed fighting on a global scale. It's not like all our problems are solved because we go into Iraq, or into Afganistan. We still have people out there who hate us. And if we keep doing the things that piss them off, they'll hate us more.
maybe the problem here is technollogy, and particularly, the mass-media. The more I think of it, the more it makes sense, or at least with americanized media/entertainment.
basically what you are suggesting here is that israel turn thousands of prisoners loose into the streets and everything will magically fix its self. overe here in reality thing's don't work that way.
Oh come on. The isreali's are doing everything in their power to either arrest or kill as many palistanians as possible. So far they're doing a pretty damn good job.
but if the isreali's DID in fact release the prisoners, then the palistinians wouldn't have bombed the bus. Then the isreali's wouldn't have blown up the suspected hamas leader, and the road map to peace would still be in effect.
unfortunatly, isreal had to act tough, and because of it, we're all fucked.
em·pire ( P ) (mpr)
n.
A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority.
please explain how north korea is an empire?
they're more of an impire than Al Queda, or the Hamas.
how about this one:
diplomacy
\Di*plo"ma*cy\, n. [F. diplomatie. This word, like supremacy, retains the accent of its original. See Diploma.] 1. The art and practice of conducting negotiations between nations (particularly in securing treaties), including the methods and forms usually employed.
2. Dexterity or skill in securing advantages; tact.
3. The body of ministers or envoys resident at a court; the diplomatic body. [R.] --Burke.
exactly how did bush get us into "this mess"? the track record clearly shows that these terrorist attacks have been happening since before GW even considered running for president.
true.
but terror isn't something new, either. Maybe to us, but please. Add up all the americans killed in terror attacks and compare it to other country's terror causualties.
Hell, look at the fucking IRA. Maybe the NRA, as well, who is pretty synonymus with the KKK.
I say bush got us into the mess because he had to be a fucking hero. He had to be his hick-ass self and say we'll take them all with one arm tied behind our back because we're strong.
but we're not as strong as we think we are, or at least more vulnerable than we think.
You know, if 9-11 happened, and bush said, "alright. Thats a wake up call to us. We realized why these people did this to us, and what upset them so much to the point that they hijacked 4 planes and did all this. Maybe we can learn something and perhaps fix it, so future generations can enjoy the same thing we do."
but no, he had to say "bring 'em on"
fucking hick....
and anybody,
anybody who's actually been in a war, MAYBE I can see a reason for them to be like that. But look at bush. A c student at yale. A coke user. He didn't even serve in vietnam, and while he was in the texas air national guard, he skipped the final year and went AWOL so he could party. But since his dad was the leader of the CIA, hell, I guess he could do whatever he wanted, including thinking he's ceasar or some shit.
another thing. what is it that you think pulling out of iraq would accomplish?
I'm sure the world would be rather agasp if america said "whoops, we were wrong"
really, its ok to admit that. Nobody is ever always right.
it's a bit late in the game to decide we don't want to play anymore.
which is why I've been against this since day one. Maybe I
should run for president.
like it or not we're in it for the duration, whatever the outcome.
beleive me, I'm very well aware of it. I even said that, remember?
but just because we're stuck with it doesn't mean I have to like it.
we didn't show them convincing enough evidence for france/germany/russia to pull out of their business deals with iraq.
and who are we to talk? Did america suddenly never deal with Iraq? Yes we did, if you remember the 80's all to well.
but we also funded the Taliban proir to the 9-11-01 attack. We also funded Osama. We also funded the Contra's in nicaragua. It's not as if our hands are clean.
all 3 countrys with veto power in the UN, do you really think that the UN would've acted differently in any other situation?
I think when given the option of reasoning with these people, or trying to fight them on all sorts of fronts, the russians/french/germans all came to the proper conclusion.
but then again, russia, france and germany don't sport the highest deaths-by-guns badge that we love to show off, it seems. Maybe there's a reaon america wants blood so bad.
actually.. not true. the amount of oil that we get from iraq is minimal. most actually comes from good ol USA(imagine that)saudi and kuwait, followed by venezuela and a few other south american countries.
the oil from here alone wouldn't be near enough for us. But the only reason oil from Iraq is minimal is because the UN kept sactioning them. I'm sure if pipelines weren't being blown up, Iraq would be producing much more oil today now that Halburton is in charge. I bet Dick is happy.
I guess there was another point about Iraq I didn't bring up. We knocked them out because they were the strongest nation in the region. With them out of the picture, what country in the region do we really have to fear?
and thats what it all boils down to, fear.
on that same note how can you say it doesn't? there's the other side of your "coin" that you keep forgetting about.
not really. Every time I try to forget, you bastards keep bringing it up
the same can be said of liberals being granola eating, tree hugging, hippies.
true, But I'm not a liberal, jackass. Libertarians are slightly different.
personally i am in no way a bible thumper. that's an impossibility for an athiest, but thanks for the generalization. your ignorance shines through.
but the cool thing about generalizations, is in fact, they're generally right.
Look at most conservatives. People who love to worship God, love to fear what they don't understand, and go on about there lives like them and only them are the only thing that matters.
how considerate.
can't argue with you there. the principles taught in each are very good... but how they are used through interpretation is where we fall short.
so you think maybe it would benifit us to work on that and maybe come to an understanding? Or maybe throwing rocks is the best idea?
Originally posted by dliske
I actually did want to see what your answers were only to see why you feel the way that you do.
what does it matter to you?
Your FACTS above are a little distorted,
and yours arn't?
in that I don't believe that we WANTED war.
we sure didn't NOT want it. Otherwise, I'd be alot happier today.
But, as to not finding intact weaponry, I'll agree with that.
which is pretty much my strongest point. I'm still waiting, btw.
I, like you, hope that the unnaccounted for weapons did not go to an enemy of the US,
honestly, at this point, I could care less anymore. It's clear to me the end is in sight, so in my veiw, this would just bring us one step closer to the next movement. Change is good.
Originally posted by dliske
as the old expression goes, "how can you argue with logic like that?"
then don't, stupid fuck.
I'm not here to amuse you bitches. I titled this thread "For those of you against the war" because I, for one second, actually thought there might have been some like minded individuals. But unfortunatly, they usually seem to be lazy.
this thread was put here to give some insight to what I beleive is right. Sure I proded you conservatives on with some tounge-in-check humor about "can't wait to say I told you so" but thats my nature. I'm very jovial like that. But if you can't take the joke, don't post on this thread.
I wouldn't even know where to begin, since who knows where you'd end up taking it. Jeez, now you've brought in indians and slaves. What next?...Eve taking a bite out of the apple?
not really, I think Eve is a bunch of bullshit.
but if you think our past has nothing to do with this, you're more a fool than myself.
What intrigued me most, however, was this little gem:
That's one fine generalization you've made, considering you know absolutely nothing about me, other than the fact that you and I are on opposite sides of the political spectrum. What you have done here, though, is show how liberals are not really the open-minded persons they think they are.
oh come on. Where the fuck did I say I'm perfect? Of course I'm gonna sit here and bullshit and say conservatives are all the same. Christ, thats because most of them are. But ahhhh, we're all youth. Thats the difference.
you guys aren't in charge. People like my assumption are. I think I hit the nail on the head with what I was getting at.
Never mind the fact that I'm not a "bible thumper," and I couldn't tell you the last time I went to church. What I find truly hilarious is that you accuse conservatives of not forming their own thoughts, but YOU are the one who started this entire thread by posting the work of SOMEONE ELSE!!! OMG, I'm LMFAO.
that someone else is my good friend matt. Him and me are very similar, but where he is more passive, I'm very tenasious in my beleifs. Thats probably why you don't see him posting any comments. But he's got an account on here.
still, he does very little. When he's not in school, he sits around alot on the internet, looking up all kinds of shit that I don't have the time to sit through looking at. I'm online what, maybe an hour a day. Other than the internet, its very hard to find people with similar idea's as mine.
now then, the reason I said all conservatives are the same, and not forming their own thoughts, is because they really arn't. They're more or less acting on impulses driven by fear.
maybe I did get off it, and forgot to bring this up. But the fact is, you guys are afraid. You love "freedom" too much to let go, and you'd do anything in order to hold on to it. Big deal. Its just life, and life is half the equation in our reality, for there's the other half that we don't understand, which drives most of us to the fear, and that thing is Death.
Let's see, who else has devoted time cutting and pasting to make points relative to their NON-conservative beliefs?...Odysseus and Sxecrow come to mind. Now, WHO doesn't like to form their own thoughts?
who started this thread?
if you don't read all my shit, don't post in my fucking thread.
you see, your problem is you don't read all my shit, and you miss points I bring up that are very reasonable. Read below, you dumbass, maybe you'll learn something.
Originally posted by sxecrow
As much as you guys dont want to admit it, I have to say 18secFerio pretty much summed it up. This can go on and on and on until we have the longest thread but I see nothing in your arguements that persuade me to bow down and follow Bush on his crusade of American domination. We're not better than any other country, we're not the world police, and it's not our duty to kill people because they have different beliefs or because Emperor Bush believe's they're a terrorist. Go overseas and ask who the real terrorist is. I'm sure you conservatives will love the answer you get.
you see, this right here is my point. But you like to attack me, and I'll be the first to admit, I make myself an easy target. But still, you fail to take my message serious. Maybe you shouldn't, maybe there's no reason for you to, and I'm sure if I was you, I wouldn't either. But if you seriously can't read all my post in here, and see this is the conclusion I'm trying to draw, then you'd make the perfect american: blind. For in the land of the blind, the man with one eye leads.
guess what. Both of my eyes are fucking open.
There's a thing called Irony, there's a thing called a metaphore, and there's a thing called a similie. and no, it's not just limited to grammar and english class. These things are very universal.
Originally posted by redgoober4life
Lets just all get drunk and forget about war. Get the troops back home they need to drink too. Give the Iraqis some good booze, it'll make them like us. 
acutally, I think legalization of drugs might improve things
south america gets money for cocain, weed. Their economy flurishes.
middle east gets money for herion, opium, hashish, etc. Their economy flurishes.
everyone knows drugs kill. but if we teach proper drug education, then there wouldn't really be a problem, and then 3rd world countrys wouldn't be as bad.
Originally posted by sxecrow
That's EXACTLY what we don't need.
I concure.
and no, I'm not mad.
No, I'm not upset.
Yes, I use vulgarity to emphisise my fucking point.