GSRRacer95

VW design outdated. They just changed it last year.

SickCitroen

Yes, they did.

I have an '01 GTI VR6 2.8L

It pulls rather strong, but has an acceleration AND speed governor.

It would gain CONSIDERABLE amounts if it was chipped to an e-prom that didn't have the acceleration limiter + the top end limiter it'd gain a considerable amount of power.

mberndt

LOL an acceleration governor LOL

That's gotta be the best excuse for poor performance from a VR6 that I've ever heard... Acceleration governor ahahhahahhah...

Speed governors are in place for safety... That is if your motor can even push you into that territory... Whatever speed u might be talking about...
The main reason governors are used is because the tires that come on the car cannot sustain high-speed driving, unless they are V or Z rated... This governor can be removed if you have the correct speed-rated tires on the car and the dealer can confirm that...

Also, the reason you're VR6 cannot make any power top-end is not because you have a top-end limiter... It's because the VR6 is not designed to make power on the "top-end"...
There is MUCH more to the top-end than ECU tuning...
This is established by larger, and more numerous valves, higher compression ratio, and most importantly, cam(S) that are designed to breathe at high rpm... None of which the VR6 has...

Besides, the VR6 is a 12 valve engine... In order to breathe efficiently at high engine speed, you need 16 valves, or even 20 (As audi has used in the past). 2 valves simply cannot offer the amount of airflow that 4 valves can... And because heat engines are nothing more than an air pump in reverse, the more airflow the more power, period.

Not to say the VR6 is slow, by no means. Besides they sound great with an exhaust... Its just a totally different animal. It is torquey and that is where it shines...

brett82

both cars are great but by far the civic all the way the vw will fall apart like the rest of their junk good for about 4 year once the warranty run out then problems will start coming. I know from experience I work as an apprentice at a vw dealership they are not as good as people all think, honda are ten times the car I own a 94 integra gsr and would not trade it for a new gti. The gti might be faster than the civic but wow who cares vw needs a turbo to make 3 hp, put that on the civic and all I can say if by by. My gsr with bolt ons has not problem beating any vw even the gti. Go with the si all the way looks way better and alot cheaper and way better enginering. Vtec is amazing nothing better.

mikesta21

Okay, that was a pretty poor analysis. The two cars, like MIke explained well, are two different animals. The VW is tuned for tq and not high end/peak HP ratings. It makes 207ft lbs.. at 1950rpm.. The honda makes 139 at 6200rpm. The vw was tuned to have a very flat tq band. This makes for smooth, n/a-like response and no need to downshift to accelerate. Many find that this is more desireable than the honda's peaky powerband.
The integra could perhaps beat the gti in a straight line because of its weight.. the gti is 3300 lbs.. about 600lbs heavier than the teg, so take that into consideration.
Like Mike already said, they are just set up for different people.. healthy distribution of power all around the rpms.. or high hp near redline with little tq on the low end... its up to you.
I like the vw for its motor.. but its too heavy and the reliability of post 2000 vws in a little sketchy.. windows falling in and coolant "migrating"(wtf does that mean?).. they arent worth the trouble. Hopefully they can figure it out soon before they release the new scirocco in 08.

lithium5

si > gti

ran a friend of mine with my 06 rsx type s and his 06 gti 2.0t and i pulled him a half car until i got i/h/e then i pulled him by at least 2-3 cars

4Toda-Si

i got an 06 si.. 100% stock right now.. short ram comin soon.. but ive raced 3 brand new GTI's.. and i dunno if its the driver or what.. but ive smoked em.. like no way they were gonna catch up.. now this was on the freeyway... maybe on the street it wud b different.. but na.. there wack.

cretinx

Everything I say applies to the 2.0T GTI and K20 Civic

The test data indicates 0-60 in 6.6 and 1/4 mile at 15 seconds for the SI, 0-60 in 6.3 and 1/4 mile in 14.8 for the GTI - this is repeated in almost every magazine review I've read

the GTI is always slightly faster, but then the Civic comes in and handles better, usually posting a faster track time, higher skidpad and higher slalom

the GTI really shines when you chip it - you're looking at 250 hp/300 lb-ft of torque (from 2000-5000 rpm, no revving to 7000 rpm just to reach peak torque output)

however, the GTI is crippled by its chassis layout - it will never be able to handle the way an SI does.

maweitao

Well, according to Car & Driver these are the performance specs for each car:

Civic Si (Coupe)
0-60mph: 6.7s
5-60mph: 7.5s
Skidpad: .91g
Slalom: 68.7
Braking 60-0: 128 ft
Curb weight: 2886lbs
MPG: 23/32

GTI
0-60mph: 6.0s
5-60mph: 6.8s
Skidpad: .84g
Slalom: 66.1
Braking 60-0: 126 ft
Curb weight: 3189lbs
MPG: 25/32

I got this information from a few sources, so obvious test conditions were different. Regardless, it should give you a general sense of what to expect from each car. I would have added 1/4-mile times but I couldn't really find anything reliable.

First of all, the cars are only about 300lbs apart in weight, not 600lbs as some have claimed. Secondly, the Si 4-door weighs 3000lbs so it's only about 250lbs lighter than the GTI. That's still a decent difference in weight, but it's heavy compared to older Civics. On the other hand, it means both cars have a nice rigid chassis.

From what I've read the Civic Si is easier to drive; it's more predictable especially for a less experienced driver. The Si is very balanced so it doesn't understeer easily.

So in the end it's a driver's race. The Si is more forgiving and easier to get around a track. The GTI may be more demanding, but the power output gives the driver some leeway. So ultimately neither car has a significant advantage, but I'd give the edge to the Si. If you're comparing the Si 4-door, however, I'd say the advantage falls to the GTI.

The Civic Si does win in two areas. It costs a few thousand less than the GTI. So you're getting more for the money. It also will almost definitely be more reliable than the GTI. That's in theory, however, because I bet with dealer markups Si's cost as much as GTI's.

Either way, I'd personally go for the Civic Si. But I do admit that the GTI is a cool car in it's own right.

R_Squared

According to Motor Trend, the Si sedan pulled a 0-60 time of 6.3 seconds.