spring rates
07-08-2003, 11:21 AM
#1
midwest corn killer
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spring rates
im going to be ordering some ground control coilovers for my 89 civic hatch (going to be in E prepared next year) im curious if 475f 575r is going to be good, im thinking of maybe doing 525f 575r but i dont know what the ups and downs are to those rates, one of the guys i race with uses those rates on his neuspeed race springs. I will be using OTS koni yellows which can hold 600. tell me what you think, any expeirances etc..
07-08-2003, 11:51 AM
#2
i
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stiffer is gonna make your ride ruffer, but more responsive, it's usually better to have a higher spring rate in the front (due to the larger mass), but mike's been doing well with his higher spring rate rears
07-08-2003, 08:06 PM
#3
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Well higher rates in the rear to help rotation. I may switch that setup next year and ADD a rear sway bar.
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07-09-2003, 07:02 PM
#4
it's my D in a B
I'm pretty happy with my 400/400. Natural balance is very mild understeer with 30lbs in all 4 tires. With the front shocks turned 1/2 turn from soft and the rears on full hard and tire pressure around 40f/30r natural balance is perfectly neutral/very mild oversteer, but easy to provoke into heavier oversteer by tossing the car around, braking or letting off the throttle fast.
07-10-2003, 10:07 AM
#6
midwest corn killer
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well for i can deal with a stiff ride i dont care about that, comfort is not a big thing with me, I have a friend that is running Neuspeed race springs and they are doin great for him.
anybody else?
anybody else?
07-10-2003, 01:57 PM
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Spring choice depends on your driving style also.
If you're a smooth driver and do most of your corrections with your right foot, you can get away with lighter rear springs to help turn in, and rotation with late braking. That kind of setup can be very loose if driven harshly, but is easy to stop the rotation with the addition of throttle. Stiffer front springs also seem to make the car corner flatter.
Heavier rear springs are usually best if you snap the car into a corner, the outside front will dive, your inside rear tire will do a "dog piss" and you'll still get rotation. The way to stop rotation with this kind of setup is to feed into the throttle while you're straigthening the wheel, because too much throttle in this situation usually just abuses the inside front tire. In a limited slip setup, quick throttle application can induce a push with this kind of spring setup.
Those are just some experiences and observations I've made in the course of helping set up a variety of FWD cars.
The bottom line is that either setup can be fast if it's tailored to the driver's style and comfort zone.
If you're a smooth driver and do most of your corrections with your right foot, you can get away with lighter rear springs to help turn in, and rotation with late braking. That kind of setup can be very loose if driven harshly, but is easy to stop the rotation with the addition of throttle. Stiffer front springs also seem to make the car corner flatter.
Heavier rear springs are usually best if you snap the car into a corner, the outside front will dive, your inside rear tire will do a "dog piss" and you'll still get rotation. The way to stop rotation with this kind of setup is to feed into the throttle while you're straigthening the wheel, because too much throttle in this situation usually just abuses the inside front tire. In a limited slip setup, quick throttle application can induce a push with this kind of spring setup.
Those are just some experiences and observations I've made in the course of helping set up a variety of FWD cars.
The bottom line is that either setup can be fast if it's tailored to the driver's style and comfort zone.
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AIM: NDcissive
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07-10-2003, 02:03 PM
#8
it's my D in a B
the latter setup-- i.e. stiffer rear, agressive driving style, works wonders with VW rabbits, for what thats worth. 
h:
My roommates saab shop owns a rabbit racer, I've had a couple chances to get behind the wheel... one word: yikes!
h:My roommates saab shop owns a rabbit racer, I've had a couple chances to get behind the wheel... one word: yikes!
07-11-2003, 03:50 AM
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Originally posted by 1stGenCRXer
Spring choice depends on your driving style also.
If you're a smooth driver and do most of your corrections with your right foot, you can get away with lighter rear springs to help turn in, and rotation with late braking. That kind of setup can be very loose if driven harshly, but is easy to stop the rotation with the addition of throttle. Stiffer front springs also seem to make the car corner flatter.
Heavier rear springs are usually best if you snap the car into a corner, the outside front will dive, your inside rear tire will do a "dog piss" and you'll still get rotation. The way to stop rotation with this kind of setup is to feed into the throttle while you're straigthening the wheel, because too much throttle in this situation usually just abuses the inside front tire. In a limited slip setup, quick throttle application can induce a push with this kind of spring setup.
Those are just some experiences and observations I've made in the course of helping set up a variety of FWD cars.
The bottom line is that either setup can be fast if it's tailored to the driver's style and comfort zone.
Spring choice depends on your driving style also.
If you're a smooth driver and do most of your corrections with your right foot, you can get away with lighter rear springs to help turn in, and rotation with late braking. That kind of setup can be very loose if driven harshly, but is easy to stop the rotation with the addition of throttle. Stiffer front springs also seem to make the car corner flatter.
Heavier rear springs are usually best if you snap the car into a corner, the outside front will dive, your inside rear tire will do a "dog piss" and you'll still get rotation. The way to stop rotation with this kind of setup is to feed into the throttle while you're straigthening the wheel, because too much throttle in this situation usually just abuses the inside front tire. In a limited slip setup, quick throttle application can induce a push with this kind of spring setup.
Those are just some experiences and observations I've made in the course of helping set up a variety of FWD cars.
The bottom line is that either setup can be fast if it's tailored to the driver's style and comfort zone.
07-11-2003, 06:27 AM
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It's all about weight transfer and how you manage it.
A lighter spring is more willing to accept more weight transfer in a turn or under acceleration and braking by compressing than a stiffer spring is. The reason a lot of people think a stiffer rear spring means a loose handling car is because under braking more weight is transfered to the front, and off of the rear, causing the rear to feel light, so you get rotation. This isn't exactly ideal though because the stiffer rear springs mean that the car doesn't want to shift weight aft under acceleration mid-corner or on a quick corner exit. This is fine if you have a great tire setup, but anything less means that the fine line you toe as far as the limits of adhesion go, you just crossed over and the front just wants to plow.
I'm not saying a lighter spring in the rear is better, all I'm saying is that it is a driver comfort issue first. Personally, I've raced long enough to be very smooth in the braking zone, late braking and a smooth turn into the apex. Because of this I seem to do quite well in cars with heavier springs up front. The reason it rotates just fine also is that the front is more responsive on turn in because it doesn't transfer as much weight side to side. It also doesn't transfer as much weight forward under braking, but that's ok because the stiffer front springs bring cross weights more into play, and the outside front spring still ends up carrying a lot of weight, even though it doesn't compress much, which unloads the inside rear tire, and viola, rotation. The main difference with this setup is that coming out of a corner since the front is less prone to physically move in it's suspension travel, addition of throttle tends to transfer more weight aft, and settle the rotation. Of course, the danger here is on open diff cars or cars with a high amount of power, because any time you transfer weight off the front wheels you have the potential to induce understeer or break traction.
Both methods have their ups and downs, both methods work. :dunno:
A lighter spring is more willing to accept more weight transfer in a turn or under acceleration and braking by compressing than a stiffer spring is. The reason a lot of people think a stiffer rear spring means a loose handling car is because under braking more weight is transfered to the front, and off of the rear, causing the rear to feel light, so you get rotation. This isn't exactly ideal though because the stiffer rear springs mean that the car doesn't want to shift weight aft under acceleration mid-corner or on a quick corner exit. This is fine if you have a great tire setup, but anything less means that the fine line you toe as far as the limits of adhesion go, you just crossed over and the front just wants to plow.
I'm not saying a lighter spring in the rear is better, all I'm saying is that it is a driver comfort issue first. Personally, I've raced long enough to be very smooth in the braking zone, late braking and a smooth turn into the apex. Because of this I seem to do quite well in cars with heavier springs up front. The reason it rotates just fine also is that the front is more responsive on turn in because it doesn't transfer as much weight side to side. It also doesn't transfer as much weight forward under braking, but that's ok because the stiffer front springs bring cross weights more into play, and the outside front spring still ends up carrying a lot of weight, even though it doesn't compress much, which unloads the inside rear tire, and viola, rotation. The main difference with this setup is that coming out of a corner since the front is less prone to physically move in it's suspension travel, addition of throttle tends to transfer more weight aft, and settle the rotation. Of course, the danger here is on open diff cars or cars with a high amount of power, because any time you transfer weight off the front wheels you have the potential to induce understeer or break traction.
Both methods have their ups and downs, both methods work. :dunno:
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AIM: NDcissive
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CRX and Pre '92 Civic, Engine Tech and Tuning, & Track and Autocross Forum Mod